Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So, this customized van salesman is ... a VAR?
No, he is a salesperson.
His company is a VAR, but the person you are interfacing with is simply a salesperson.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So, this customized van salesman is ... a VAR?
No, he is a salesperson.
His company is a VAR, but the person you are interfacing with is simply a salesperson.
This, I misunderstood. You're interfacing with a salesperson the company he is working with/for is a VAR.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I, personally, do not think I understand what a true consultant delivers. I mean, if I go and ask for a server, correct, how many different types of servers are there?
You do not hire a consultant if you know you need a server. you go to the vendor or VAR.
You go to a consultant to determine the best server for your needs.
But that is the point I think @guyinpv is trying to make.
His customers come to HIM and say "I want a server". They trust him to pick the best solution for them.
If it was ME, I'd ask a ton questions first ... do you really need a server? being the first.
For example (and keep in mind this is NOT my line of work, doing this sort of stuff) a non-profit comes to me recently, with 3 users, and really, really says they need a server. I immediately explain why they don't need one. And I've been arguing back and forth with them on it. They are adamant they need one.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
But like the car sales person, assuming commissions, they want to sell you the highest commissions items in the place.
OK, so let's take a specialized car salesman. My mom is disabled, so I have some experience with customized vans and whatnot. Now, these guys are still salesman, but I honestly believe most of them are in this line of work because they care, and are really looking to get the handicapped person the best possible vehicle for them.
So, this customized van salesman is ... a VAR?
yep - he's a VAR!
and while he puts on a great sales face making you believe that it's his life's work to get the best price vehicle for your mom, the reality is most of them are just there because it's a job. Don't forget.. that guy does not work for you... he works for the dealership.. his goal is to sell you the most money making thing he can.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I, personally, do not think I understand what a true consultant delivers. I mean, if I go and ask for a server, correct, how many different types of servers are there?
You do not hire a consultant if you know you need a server. you go to the vendor or VAR.
You go to a consultant to determine the best server for your needs.
But that is the point I think @guyinpv is trying to make.
His customers come to HIM and say "I want a server". They trust him to pick the best solution for them.
Right and that makes him a VAR which he continually and vehemently rejects.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
But like the car sales person, assuming commissions, they want to sell you the highest commissions items in the place.
OK, so let's take a specialized car salesman. My mom is disabled, so I have some experience with customized vans and whatnot. Now, these guys are still salesman, but I honestly believe most of them are in this line of work because they care, and are really looking to get the handicapped person the best possible vehicle for them.
So, this customized van salesman is ... a VAR?
I also have experience in this and I can tell you that most of these people are in it for their own employment and nothing else.
I can honestly say I have only dealt with them at the perimeter, but they always seemed to care.
I'll believe your more hands on knowledge of this. (And sorry to hear that it was like that for you,)
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I, personally, do not think I understand what a true consultant delivers. I mean, if I go and ask for a server, correct, how many different types of servers are there?
You do not hire a consultant if you know you need a server. you go to the vendor or VAR.
You go to a consultant to determine the best server for your needs.
But that is the point I think @guyinpv is trying to make.
His customers come to HIM and say "I want a server". They trust him to pick the best solution for them.
If it was ME, I'd ask a ton questions first ... do you really need a server? being the first.
For the love of god - WHY? why are you asking that? He told you he wanted a server, so sell him a server. He didn't come to you and say - hey, I have a problem and I think a server will solve it, but I want to make sure.. can you help me? he just asked for a server.
Why do his job for him for free?For example (and keep in mind this is NOT my line of work, doing this sort of stuff) a non-profit comes to me recently, with 3 users, and really, really says they need a server. I immediately explain why they don't need one. And I've been arguing back and forth with them on it. They are adamant they need one.
And have you seen a dime for that time you've spent? nope. but if you would have just sold them a server, you would have money in your pocket and maybe a support contact out of it.
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@Dashrender said
For the love of god - WHY? why are you asking that? He told you he wanted a server, so sell him a server. He didn't come to you and say - hey, I have a problem and I think a server will solve it, but I want to make sure.. can you help me? he just asked for a server.
Why do his job for him for free?Why? Because I care? And I want to provide good service?
And have you seen a dime for that time you've spent? nope. but if you would have just sold them a server, you would have money in your pocket and maybe a support contact out of it.
Well, we should be charging for putting together what they need. You are all correct in that.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I, personally, do not think I understand what a true consultant delivers. I mean, if I go and ask for a server, correct, how many different types of servers are there?
You do not hire a consultant if you know you need a server. you go to the vendor or VAR.
You go to a consultant to determine the best server for your needs.
But that is the point I think @guyinpv is trying to make.
His customers come to HIM and say "I want a server". They trust him to pick the best solution for them.
Right and that makes him a VAR which he continually and vehemently rejects.
Right, and I don't understand why he doesn't want to be a VAR? There are tons of respectable VARs out there (granted there as many non respectable ones too)
For example: CDW is a great var if you KNOW you need a HP DL380 with XYZ drives.... and ABC RAID card. They, as a VAR should look over the specs you gave them and come back and say - oh yeah, you know, you need DEF cable to make that work right, want me to add it to the order? the value they bring in this case is that they know the parts that are needed to make it work considering the rest of the setup.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
For the love of god - WHY? why are you asking that? He told you he wanted a server, so sell him a server. He didn't come to you and say - hey, I have a problem and I think a server will solve it, but I want to make sure.. can you help me? he just asked for a server.
Why do his job for him for free?Why? Because I care? And I want to provide good service?
I argue that you are providing bad customer service. You are not doing what they asked. Instead you are trying to convince them that what they know is wrong. And clearly they haven't bought into your argument by your own admission.
And have you seen a dime for that time you've spent? nope. but if you would have just sold them a server, you would have money in your pocket and maybe a support contact out of it.
Well, we should be charging for putting together what they need. You are all correct in that.
But most customers in that case won't pay you for that. If you spend one hour asking those questions, then put a $150 charge for information gathering, they will scream bloody murder at you.
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I'd be willing to bet that the majority of IT shops like @guyinpv are VARs. Can they do consulting? of course they can. But in reality most SMBs don't want to pay for it... they call you up and say I want X, so you sell them X.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of IT shops like @guyinpv are VARs. Can they do consulting? of course they can. But in reality most SMBs don't want to pay for it... they call you up and say I want X, so you sell them X.
You can try to "do the right thing" as @BRRABill mentioned, but you really have to ask - is it the right thing? If they just ask you to sell them something, why assume they don't know what they want? of course as IT people, we know that 9/10 they really don't, but it's not our job to correct them.
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@Dashrender said
You can try to "do the right thing" as @BRRABill mentioned, but you really have to ask - is it the right thing? If they just ask you to sell them something, why assume they don't know what they want? of course as IT people, we know that 9/10 they really don't, but it's not our job to correct them.
That's where I disagree. I think it IS our job.
Talk about unethical. Knowingly selling someone something they don't need, I feel, is unethical. Though it sounds like it is also the definition of sales.
For me, personally, people have come to me because I have helped others, and they want the help and advice I can give. They WANT me to say "no that's not what you need" or "hey if you switch to this, it'll give you more features and be half the price".
Am I a VAR? Sure. I have no problems with it. I'm not pegging myself as anything.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
You can try to "do the right thing" as @BRRABill mentioned, but you really have to ask - is it the right thing? If they just ask you to sell them something, why assume they don't know what they want? of course as IT people, we know that 9/10 they really don't, but it's not our job to correct them.
That's where I disagree. I think it IS our job.
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Talk about unethical. Knowingly selling someone something they don't need, I feel, is unethical. Though it sounds like it is also the definition of sales.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
But they did not come to you for discovery and research on what is needed.
For me, personally, people have come to me because I have helped others, and they want the help and advice I can give. They WANT me to say "no that's not what you need" or "hey if you switch to this, it'll give you more features and be half the price".
Those are all good qualities of a VAR. But the point is they came to you with specs known already. At least fairly close to what was needed.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
You can try to "do the right thing" as @BRRABill mentioned, but you really have to ask - is it the right thing? If they just ask you to sell them something, why assume they don't know what they want? of course as IT people, we know that 9/10 they really don't, but it's not our job to correct them.
That's where I disagree. I think it IS our job.
Talk about unethical. Knowingly selling someone something they don't need, I feel, is unethical. Though it sounds like it is also the definition of sales.
For me, personally, people have come to me because I have helped others, and they want the help and advice I can give. They WANT me to say "no that's not what you need" or "hey if you switch to this, it'll give you more features and be half the price".
Am I a VAR? Sure. I have no problems with it. I'm not pegging myself as anything.
If they really want you to tell them No that's now what you need - then they should hire you to do that. You shouldn't do that for free.
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@JaredBusch said
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Agree 100%. I mean, a 5 minute discussion is OK, I think, but anything more needs billing.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
So if a 3 person non-profit church comes in and wants a $5K server. No questions asked you just sell it to them? Not me. Because I know they do not know what they need. They know the term server, but have no idea what it means, and what it is for. And how for 1/100th or less of the cost they can have a much better solution.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
You can try to "do the right thing" as @BRRABill mentioned, but you really have to ask - is it the right thing? If they just ask you to sell them something, why assume they don't know what they want? of course as IT people, we know that 9/10 they really don't, but it's not our job to correct them.
That's where I disagree. I think it IS our job.
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Talk about unethical. Knowingly selling someone something they don't need, I feel, is unethical. Though it sounds like it is also the definition of sales.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
But they did not come to you for discovery and research on what is needed.
Even more so, they didn't come to you to have their decision questioned on if they need a server or not.
That's obvious in the case of the example non-profit because you say they are still arguing with you over it. -
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Agree 100%. I mean, a 5 minute discussion is OK, I think, but anything more needs billing.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
So if a 3 person non-profit church comes in and wants a $5K server. No questions asked you just sell it to them? Not me. Because I know they do not know what they need. They know the term server, but have no idea what it means, and what it is for. And how for 1/100th or less of the cost they can have a much better solution.
No one comes to me just to buy a server, so I am never in this position, but if I was, I would tell said church person, that they have no idea what they need and they need to hire someone to actually figure that out. Me or another company I don't care, but hire someone who knows wtf they are doing to make sure you are not getting jipped.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Agree 100%. I mean, a 5 minute discussion is OK, I think, but anything more needs billing.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
So if a 3 person non-profit church comes in and wants a $5K server. No questions asked you just sell it to them? Not me. Because I know they do not know what they need. They know the term server, but have no idea what it means, and what it is for. And how for 1/100th or less of the cost they can have a much better solution.
Who are you to say any of that is true? You would have to ask several questions, none that have anything to do with the server itself to come close to knowing that's true. So you start your relations as follows:
Customer walks in:
Customer : Hi I want to buy a server, here are the specs.
You: oh hold on a second, do you really need a server?
Customer: yes
You: are you sure? how do you know?
Customer: because I know what servers are and I know I need one.really, how could it have started much different from that? How did you learn they are a three person shop? You're questioning their server purchase without other information first just seems odd.
now if it went more like this:
Customer: Hey I'm a three person shop, we have 150 GB of data on my laptop that I want to share with the other two, I've heard I need a server, what do you think?
Now you can question them, but really, now you should also be on the clock.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said
If it is your job, you should be getting paid.
In order to get paid, you have to bill people.
In order to bill people you have to not do things for free.Agree 100%. I mean, a 5 minute discussion is OK, I think, but anything more needs billing.
NO one said sell them something they do not need. It was stated that they came to you for a server. So sell them the server they asked for, verify the basics, yes. You are a VAR, that is your job.
So if a 3 person non-profit church comes in and wants a $5K server. No questions asked you just sell it to them? Not me. Because I know they do not know what they need. They know the term server, but have no idea what it means, and what it is for. And how for 1/100th or less of the cost they can have a much better solution.
No one comes to me just to buy a server, so I am never in this position, but if I was, I would tell said church person, that they have no idea what they need and they need to hire someone to actually figure that out. Me or another company I don't care, but hire someone who knows wtf they are doing to make sure you are not getting jipped.
JB, what do you do when said church person tells you they don't care about that.. that they just want you to sell them a server? Would you?
