What Are You Doing Right Now
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@scottalanmiller said:
So the structure I would use here is....
You make specifications to the architect at the goal level.
Architect designs something to meet the goal.
Architect tells vendor the parts to deliver.
Vendor verifies and recommends changes based on unknown factors.
I definitely agree with your last two posts. For us, our architect happened to be a member of our vendor's storage team. For us, we didn't know what all was out there, and they had the resources to tell us what products were out there that met the goal we specified.
I really like the comment about being goal oriented. That probably would not have changed our decision much, but would have definitely shortened our research times.
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@dafyre said:
I definitely agree with your last two posts. For us, our architect happened to be a member of our vendor's storage team. For us, we didn't know what all was out there, and they had the resources to tell us what products were out there that met the goal we specified.
Vendors can't be architects. Their team is exclusively sales people, always. If you are paid via sales, you are a sales person. No vendor has architectural resources for you. They have architectural resources for them.
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@scottalanmiller I can see your point, after all their team is designed to make the most money for their company and all of that. Maybe we were just lucky and things worked out good. 8-)
It was a good learning experience for all of us involved on our side of the team. And fortunatley for us, we had an excellent experience with the product and support, so we always considered that a win.
Edit: Maybe not the cheapest win. But still a win.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller I can see your point, after all their team is designed to make the most money for their company and all of that. Maybe we were just lucky and things worked out good. 8-)
How have you determined that they worked out well? This is one of the questions that I always ask teams doing a post mortem like this. What was the criteria for success? Was the process fast, efficient and did it result in a cost effective solution that met business needs and was the best one to do so? In many cases what we find is that people define "cost effective" as " within budget" which are very different things and it covers up overspending and "meets business needs" as ignoring the key criteria of "best option".
Are you reasonably confident that there wasn't a solution at half the cost that was faster and safer?
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@dafyre said:
Edit: Maybe not the cheapest win. But still a win.
From a business perspective (goal level), how is that a win? Sounds like a loss, right? Isn't the goal to get the best solution for the cost?
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That depends, of course, if the cost different is 1% or 90%. Spending lots of time researching a better solution to shave off a few dollars is probably a bad idea. But I often see overspending on these projects in the 400% or higher range. Enormous numbers, not little ones.
What is surprising is how often the cheap solution (maybe 20% the assumed cost) is also the more reliable one.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Are you reasonably confident that there wasn't a solution at half the cost that was faster and safer?
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick two.... We wound up with relatively fast and reliable. It wasn't the cheapest solution, but it was built and maintained by a company we trusted. It also, however, wasn't the most expensive solution either.
@scottalanmiller said:
From a business perspective (goal level), how is that a win? Sounds like a loss, right? Isn't the goal to get the best solution for the cost?
At the time, and for what we were looking for, that was one of the solutions that offered most of the features we were looking for (including HA)... I would change your final question to "Isn't the goal to get the best solution for the value?" ... to which (like cost), the obvious answer is yes. But as (I think) you have mentioned elsewhere, cost does not necessarily equal value.
Some of the other storage vendors we looked at did not offer some of the features that we requested at the same price point as the LeftHand in the same price tier. So it is a Win in terms of value. Never once did I have to do a complete restore from backups because the storage cluster completely died. (And we did suffer from entire node failures, but the rest of the campus never noticed as the storage cluster's HA performed as expected).
@scottalanmiller said:
That depends, of course, if the cost different is 1% or 90%.
This is true. We weren't trying to penny pinch to save $500 or $1000... The price differences in products we looked at were between $5,000 and $10,000.... so between 15 and 30 percent difference between the most expensive and the solution that we followed through with.
<maybe we should have done a separate thread, lol.>
There's a longer story that goes with why we went with a SAN... Maybe I'll make a new topic and copy our last few responses from this thread... 8-)
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Are you reasonably confident that there wasn't a solution at half the cost that was faster and safer?
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick two.... We wound up with relatively fast and reliable. It wasn't the cheapest solution, but it was built and maintained by a company we trusted. It also, however, wasn't the most expensive solution either.
Actually you can often get all three. That it is expensive to get fast and reliable is a common sales tactic. It's nice to say and sometimes applies, but often does not apply. Especially when the big cost and complexity exists to be sales tools.
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@dafyre said:
Some of the other storage vendors we looked at did not offer some of the features that we requested at the same price point as the LeftHand in the same price tier.
Were you working from the assumption that there would be a storage vendor? Maybe one was needed for the final design, but if you didn't have that assumption, would it potentially, fundamentally change the approach taken the solution set available to you?
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@dafyre said:
I would change your final question to "Isn't the goal to get the best solution for the value?" ... to which (like cost), the obvious answer is yes. But as (I think) you have mentioned elsewhere, cost does not necessarily equal value.
Granted, it's value, not cost. And it is "value to the business", so a given product does not have a value in a vacuum. What is valuable to your business is not necessarily valuable to mine, etc.
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@dafyre said:
There's a longer story that goes with why we went with a SAN... Maybe I'll make a new topic and copy our last few responses from this thread... 8-)
Always fun to do a community post mortem.
Post that it is a finalized project BUT don't post the resulting solution.
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If we don't have the final solution then we can see, without any undue influence, if we come up with the same or even a similar solution to what you resulted in. Then, once we come to some kind of terminal state, you can show us what was decided on.
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Am I the only one how always has bad luck with Shipping services? USPS just leaving package notices in the mail box because they are too lazy to bring the package to the door, UPS came today and didn't leave a package because I was not home, even though I pre-authorized shipment with an online signature release. Fedex often delivers to the wrong address.
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FedEx is horrible here, delivering to the wrong address (good thing everyone knows everyone here or I would never get things). Or not delivering at all. USPS takes weeks to deliver something that should take days.
UPS is awesome here. -
@thecreativeone91 said:
Am I the only one how always has bad luck with Shipping services? USPS just leaving package notices in the mail box because they are too lazy to bring the package to the door, UPS came today and didn't leave a package because I was not home, even though I pre-authorized shipment with an online signature release. Fedex often delivers to the wrong address.
Here, the USPS will steal anything they can. If they think it might have a check inside, they open it and take the bank numbers off the check. Parcel containing anything of value? Stolen. What happens when they steal something they didn't want? Smash it, tape it back together half-assedly, and deliver. ** F***[moderated]THE USPS!!!!!! Privatize that sh [moderated] so it will work correctly!!!!
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We have major USPS problems. Had to open an FBI case a few years ago. Now it takes over a week to get a first class letter from one part of the state to another.
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@RojoLoco USPS used to know how to deal with stuff like that.
1792 - Congress imposes the death penalty for stealing mail.
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Dang it. Broke my phone again.... I'm so bad with phones. What's the cheapest AT&T/unlocked phone I can get on amazon prime to work with the AT&T/Cricket network?
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Wonder about this one?
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Or should I just go for the Zen Fone 2
