What Are You Doing Right Now
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@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There will always be those who don't want to sit around and play Xbox all day long. Some people (I'm thinking Scott as an example here) who nearly always have to be doing something. Sure, there will be tons of people doing nothing, but why should they be enslaved to work, if our technology can do it for them and take care of nearly everything else too?
You're trying to apply technology to a social issue. We could have completely automated farms and housing construction and we'd still have the same problems.
Maybe I missed something, but what is the social issue?
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@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There will always be those who don't want to sit around and play Xbox all day long. Some people (I'm thinking Scott as an example here) who nearly always have to be doing something. Sure, there will be tons of people doing nothing, but why should they be enslaved to work, if our technology can do it for them and take care of nearly everything else too?
You're trying to apply technology to a social issue. We could have completely automated farms and housing construction and we'd still have the same problems.
One of my favourite series of books deals with some of these themes
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@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There will always be those who don't want to sit around and play Xbox all day long. Some people (I'm thinking Scott as an example here) who nearly always have to be doing something. Sure, there will be tons of people doing nothing, but why should they be enslaved to work, if our technology can do it for them and take care of nearly everything else too?
You're trying to apply technology to a social issue. We could have completely automated farms and housing construction and we'd still have the same problems.
Already there: http://www.gizmag.com/hadrian-brick-laying-robot-fastbrick/38239/
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Jason said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Seriously why should you work?
That is the problem with America. That attitude right there..
While it's hard to disagree with you, at the same time I ask - are we suppose to work? as creatures of this earth, are we meant to deal with the troubles that we have? I don't think so. No other creature on this planet does, at least not in the same way. Instead they spend the majority of their time just looking for food, shelter and procreation. But if our technology can give us all those things, do we as a species still really need to work? There will always be those who want to explore and go forth, and that's great, but do the rest really need to? and if you think so, why?
You trade hours of your time for credits (currency) to purchase the things you need first and the things you want second. If we lived in a world where mankind banded together to solve all of the worlds major problems then maybe but it's still a hard maybe. If you didn't do this you'd have to worry about your survival in the same way animals do.
But if we had technology that made it so you could be self sufficient - thinking replicators here, and power was free, again because out technology makes it so, why would you need to work?
I'm not going for Scott's model where 20% or less of the earth works, and the rest of just just live off them.
I think that we will eventually get there but I wonder who would be motivated to learn anything at all at that point. Who would be left to maintain everything that makes it all possible?
Anyone who is valuable will be motivated to learn. Allowing people to not work in no way stops people from working. Tons of smart and hard working people find joy and satisfaction from working. And as it only takes a small percentage of people working to make everything happen AND the fewer people who work the fewer resources are needed to keep things going the system is actually highly efficient.
Given that something like 30% of all work done today can be linked to welfare (fake welfare... jobs created only to keep people busy to make it feel like they are workers when really they are just living off of the system) pretty directly and that the inefficiency of that is insane... that alone shows that it works.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Jason said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Seriously why should you work?
That is the problem with America. That attitude right there..
While it's hard to disagree with you, at the same time I ask - are we suppose to work? as creatures of this earth, are we meant to deal with the troubles that we have? I don't think so. No other creature on this planet does, at least not in the same way. Instead they spend the majority of their time just looking for food, shelter and procreation. But if our technology can give us all those things, do we as a species still really need to work? There will always be those who want to explore and go forth, and that's great, but do the rest really need to? and if you think so, why?
You trade hours of your time for credits (currency) to purchase the things you need first and the things you want second. If we lived in a world where mankind banded together to solve all of the worlds major problems then maybe but it's still a hard maybe. If you didn't do this you'd have to worry about your survival in the same way animals do.
Only thing stopping this now is the insane desire to punish those that don't want to work and not allow them to eat.
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@scottalanmiller I completely agree with the idea. I've never seen any real-world examples where it actually does keep everyone fed/housed.
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@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller I completely agree with the idea. I've never seen any real-world examples where it actually does keep everyone fed/housed.
that's probably because we don't have the technology to fully make it so.
But Switzerland's attempt to make a vote of it kinda shows that between the money have saved and the technology they already have, in a smaller situation, it might be fully possible.
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@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller I completely agree with the idea. I've never seen any real-world examples where it actually does keep everyone fed/housed.
Switzerland was the first place to vote on it and it was just this week. But, they ran the numbers and it was going to be easy to do. It's actually a really simple idea and has very little to go wrong.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller I completely agree with the idea. I've never seen any real-world examples where it actually does keep everyone fed/housed.
that's probably because we don't have the technology to fully make it so.
But Switzerland's attempt to make a vote of it kinda shows that between the money have saved and the technology they already have, in a smaller situation, it might be fully possible.
Switzerland said that they'd had the technology for some time (few years, at least.) They are already at the point where they don't need to work.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Jason said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Seriously why should you work?
That is the problem with America. That attitude right there..
While it's hard to disagree with you, at the same time I ask - are we suppose to work? as creatures of this earth, are we meant to deal with the troubles that we have? I don't think so. No other creature on this planet does, at least not in the same way. Instead they spend the majority of their time just looking for food, shelter and procreation. But if our technology can give us all those things, do we as a species still really need to work? There will always be those who want to explore and go forth, and that's great, but do the rest really need to? and if you think so, why?
You trade hours of your time for credits (currency) to purchase the things you need first and the things you want second. If we lived in a world where mankind banded together to solve all of the worlds major problems then maybe but it's still a hard maybe. If you didn't do this you'd have to worry about your survival in the same way animals do.
But if we had technology that made it so you could be self sufficient - thinking replicators here, and power was free, again because out technology makes it so, why would you need to work?
I'm not going for Scott's model where 20% or less of the earth works, and the rest of just just live off them.
I think that we will eventually get there but I wonder who would be motivated to learn anything at all at that point. Who would be left to maintain everything that makes it all possible?
Anyone who is valuable will be motivated to learn. Allowing people to not work in no way stops people from working. Tons of smart and hard working people find joy and satisfaction from working. And as it only takes a small percentage of people working to make everything happen AND the fewer people who work the fewer resources are needed to keep things going the system is actually highly efficient.
Given that something like 30% of all work done today can be linked to welfare (fake welfare... jobs created only to keep people busy to make it feel like they are workers when really they are just living off of the system) pretty directly and that the inefficiency of that is insane... that alone shows that it works.
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@travisdh1 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller I completely agree with the idea. I've never seen any real-world examples where it actually does keep everyone fed/housed.
that's probably because we don't have the technology to fully make it so.
But Switzerland's attempt to make a vote of it kinda shows that between the money have saved and the technology they already have, in a smaller situation, it might be fully possible.
Switzerland said that they'd had the technology for some time (few years, at least.) They are already at the point where they don't need to work.
I wonder, assuming that the Swiss people want to keep buying things like Xbox's, etc - how does that part work? Where does the money come from for the non working to get these type of luxuries?
Are you saying that the state run (or private, but taxes collect enough) facilities make enough money and there is enough desire by workers to keep working to make that system float?
Did people give reasons why they voted it down?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
The optional part is the key.
Now, do the workers get more because they choose to work?
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
What's the problem? Why do you need to change anything? Those who want to be truly educated today, they find the way, why would this be any different tomorrow?
One of the key things of the education system was to teach basic skills needed by workers - if you don't need workers, then they don't need to learn. But the few who do, they will be the ones doing the work, mostly because they want to.
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
Matt Speller 2016. It's not too late to announce yourself independant
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
The optional part is the key.
Now, do the workers get more because they choose to work?
Of course, they get paid what they are worth. Which might be less than minimum wage, it might be billions. Businesses are free to be capitalistic and market driven, none of this fake "forcing companies to handle the welfare system for the government crap".
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
What's the problem? Why do you need to change anything? Those who want to be truly educated today, they find the way, why would this be any different tomorrow?
One of the key things of the education system was to teach basic skills needed by workers - if you don't need workers, then they don't need to learn. But the few who do, they will be the ones doing the work, mostly because they want to.
Which further reduces the number of workers that we need! How many teachers are hired to teach kids things that they don't need and how many teachers are only there to teach other future teachers! The number of jobs that would be reduced is incredible!
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
Matt Speller 2016. It's not too late to announce yourself independant
Being born in Canada might make it too late for him, though.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Basic income would indeed be an improvement in many ways. I believe/hope it should/will come with a shift in our culture towards a more open and enlightened society. Unfortunately change takes a long time. We are a stubborn species.
And vengeful. A lot of the people who work will want the people who choose not to not to get anything. That's the problem. You have to accept that the workers take care of the non-workers. But because working is purely optional, hopefully that fixes a lot.
How do we move towards this though? Many countries (especially the ones I care about most, Canada/USA) have trashed their education systems. I would begin there and build that back as a foundational block of society.
It's a big project and it makes me want to run for office.
Matt Speller 2016. It's not too late to announce yourself independant
Being born in Canada might make it too late for him, though.
There were so many claims that President Obama wasn't born in this country. I think Matt could get away with it. What would @MattSpeller 's slogan be?
