What Are You Doing Right Now
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@scottalanmiller said:
Just to give some perspective on the attitudes at play, at the bottom of that thread people are openly suggesting that if the company actually expects that guy to do the job that he is paid to do that he should actively retaliate for being required to work and waste time running up the tab to make the company pay for having expected him to work.
It's a very actively unethical attitude going on there.
Yeah, that part is ridiculous. I think a lot of those posts have merit, though.
You yourself said CDW was trustworthy. So if I feel they give me good advice (I NEVER rely on them to do the research fully) and their price is similar to other places, why wouldn't I use them?
For me, price is always key.
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@scottalanmiller Why, oh why, did I go look at that thread.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I do NOT pay a plumber to tell me what to buy that he is selling. He tells me what to buy, I buy it elsewhere. I pay the plumber directly for advice. He's a consultant. The sales person is the person that tells me what aisle to find the product in. I trust them to tell me the aisle and if the item is in stock, not if I should buy it or not.
I'm talking about the one who comes to your house. That most people hire to do plumbing work for them.
Right. I pay him to do work and give advice. I don't buy products from him. He can try to sell me more of his own services, yes. But that is the extent of it. He's a consultant.
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@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller Why, oh why, did I go look at that thread.
I have to look at it now haha
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@scottalanmiller said:
Right. I pay him to do work and give advice. I don't buy products from him. He can try to sell me more of his own services, yes. But that is the extent of it. He's a consultant.
I just let him install whatever part he needs.
Most of the time he charges less than I'd get it for at Home Depot anyway.
Maybe I am too trusting. But dangit when you need a toilet fixed...
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@BRRABill said:
You yourself said CDW was trustworthy. So if I feel they give me good advice (I NEVER rely on them to do the research fully) and their price is similar to other places, why wouldn't I use them?
Trustworthy to do what they are supposed to do - which is NOT something you want them to do to you. You can trust them to provide a reasonable option that is to their advantage to sell that they think you can be convinced to buy. That is their job and you can trust them to do it.
The problem is that trusting them MEANS that you can't trust their advice. You'd have to NOT trust them to be able to trust their advice. Does that make sense? that they are trustworthy is exactly why you can't get advice from them.
That their prices are similar doesn't matter. Did you need to buy the thing in the first place? that's the question.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Right. I pay him to do work and give advice. I don't buy products from him. He can try to sell me more of his own services, yes. But that is the extent of it. He's a consultant.
I just let him install whatever part he needs.
Most of the time he charges less than I'd get it for at Home Depot anyway.
Maybe I am too trusting. But dangit when you need a toilet fixed...
It it is a screw or caulk or something, whatever. But the critical thing there is that he is a consultant, his income comes from the agreement whereby you pay him to be your "representative", he acts on your behalf. If he does sell things, they are likely very small, very obviously needed and very, very trivial compared to his pay. He is in no meaningful way incentivized by their sale.
A salesman is NOT paid by you but is paid purely through taking advantage of you. They are not your representatives but the vendor's representatives. if they do the right thing "for you" they cannot be trustworthy because they are misrepresenting the party to which they are responsible.
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I'm the lone IT. When it comes to purchasing decision (servers, switches, access points) I just ask our vendor, and whatever he sends me, I learn to manipulate it and use it.
I don't consider it lazy, just utilizing the resources available.
Omg.........
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Have you bought a house and dealt with real estate agents? Each side gets a rep. They are called a buyer's agent and a seller's agent. They play different roles, each one has to, by law, do what is best for their client. If they do not it is a breach of contract.
The IT Pro is the buyer's agent for the business. The salesman is the seller's rep for the vendor. They each have a job to do. If you try to get the seller's rep to act on your behalf you are pressuring them to do something unethical and if they do it, you can't trust them because they would be acting unethically.
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So there are no sales people you think are not trying to "take advantage of you"?
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@johnhooks said:
I'm the lone IT. When it comes to purchasing decision (servers, switches, access points) I just ask our vendor, and whatever he sends me, I learn to manipulate it and use it.
I don't consider it lazy, just utilizing the resources available.
Omg.........
I didn't see that one. Holy cow that is bad. I can't believe that anyone in that thread would be willing to post these opinions publicly. These are "asking to be fired" attitudes. If their businesses knew that they thought this way..... damn.
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My "don't believe the vendor hype" post on the above mentioned thread got no love... bunch of lazy sumbiches. Not to mention "easily led automatons"...
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Now an InFocus sales guy has popped in.
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@BRRABill In my experience, yes, every sales person (particularly ones that work on commission) is trying to take advantage of you.
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@brianlittlejohn said:
@BRRABill In my experience, yes, every sales person (particularly ones that work on commission) is trying to take advantage of you.
I've been lucky to know some nice ones, across all areas.
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@scottalanmiller said:
They play different roles, each one has to, by law, do what is best for their client. If they do not it is a breach of contract.
Fiduciary responsibilities are really serious. I don't think some people get how serious they are. Like, go to court and sue serious.
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@brianlittlejohn said:
@BRRABill In my experience, yes, every sales person (particularly ones that work on commission) is trying to take advantage of you.
Well that is all that they are paid to do so....
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@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller said:
They play different roles, each one has to, by law, do what is best for their client. If they do not it is a breach of contract.
Fiduciary responsibilities are really serious. I don't think some people get how serious they are. Like, go to court and sue serious.
Exactly. The expectations that people put on sales people are actually often quite unethical.
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@BRRABill said:
@brianlittlejohn said:
@BRRABill In my experience, yes, every sales person (particularly ones that work on commission) is trying to take advantage of you.
I've been lucky to know some nice ones, across all areas.
Has nothing to do with nice. Remember that the nicest, best, most trustworthy, most ethical sales person is the one that will oversell you the most. Because that is their job.
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@BRRABill having done sales, I can tell you that 1) SAM is correct in his assesment that sales' job is to screw you over as much as possible, and 2) your "good" experiences with sales dicks were the result of you enjoying whatever line they fed you. "Nice" and "honest" are 2 very different things. I no longer do sales because of the crushing toll it took on my morals, and the irreparable damage done to my karma. You may have left a sales interaction with me smiling, but I f*cked you on the sale without a doubt.
