Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab
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@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I will add to this discussion with this.
When I look to hire another person for @Bundy-Associates that I will most certainly be looking for the self motivated person that is going to be able to work in a very atypical environment compared to most places.
Someone with a lab environment that teaches themselves outside of work will most certainly rank over some 8-5 working Joe. @david-wiese and @RojoLoco will most certainly not be employed by me.
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.
I personally wouldn't want to work for an organization like that. I value my time and would not be expected to work like that. That sounds horrible. I guess for positions like that it takes a special kind of person that has no life outside of the job.
Also that description right there is what is wrong with the American culture. To much emphasis put on work and not enough put on life outside of it. Like I have already stated, I work to live, not live to work.
Read the reply I made about about math and hours.
How can one expect to enjoy free time when the employer expects them to be on call 24/7??? Even at 42 hours a week, the expectation of 'round the clock availability kinda negates any off the clock planning. When do your employees get a break / vacation / whatever you want to call it?
Whenever they want. Just had one of our guys gone for 3 weeks to South Africa.
Unpaid? Lame. What if I wanted to take an impromptu weekend trip, guess that's out of the question since I'm on call 25/8. Plus, from reading your posts here, I already knew I'd never want to work for you.
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@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.In return what can an employee expect from the organization ?
Depending on skill, an hourly rate between $30 and $50.
Seriously ? Is that all an employee can expect from your company ? An hourly wage ? pity ...
I'm sure they have healthcare, dental, vision, 401k, etc too. What is to be expected?
Actually, nope nothing except an IRA match. Everything else is in the rate.
wow, just wow. I would never work for you then if this is the attitude you have towards your employees.
Break out of your 8-5 and 2 weeks vacation mentality. It is amazingly refreshing.
Why is it so wrong to want to know which 40-ish hours you'll be working each week? Knowing when your time off is, that's refreshing. Knowing that I'm not expected to jump up and run at 3am on a weekend is refreshing. Constant on-call hell (with no benefits) for a tiny bit more than I make is not.
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@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.In return what can an employee expect from the organization ?
Depending on skill, an hourly rate between $30 and $50.
Seriously ? Is that all an employee can expect from your company ? An hourly wage ? pity ...
I'm sure they have healthcare, dental, vision, 401k, etc too. What is to be expected?
Actually, nope nothing except an IRA match. Everything else is in the rate.
wow, just wow. I would never work for you then if this is the attitude you have towards your employees.
Break out of your 8-5 and 2 weeks vacation mentality. It is amazingly refreshing.
Why is it so wrong to want to know which 40-ish hours you'll be working each week? Knowing when your time off is, that's refreshing. Knowing that I'm not expected to jump up and run at 3am on a weekend is refreshing. Constant on-call hell (with no benefits) for a tiny bit more than I make is not.
It's not wrong. Different jobs work for different people. I wouldn't do that either personally. I wouldn't judge someone for taking it either though.
EDIT: I stand corrected. I also made the assumption it was on call.
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@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.In return what can an employee expect from the organization ?
Depending on skill, an hourly rate between $30 and $50.
Seriously ? Is that all an employee can expect from your company ? An hourly wage ? pity ...
I'm sure they have healthcare, dental, vision, 401k, etc too. What is to be expected?
Actually, nope nothing except an IRA match. Everything else is in the rate.
wow, just wow. I would never work for you then if this is the attitude you have towards your employees.
Break out of your 8-5 and 2 weeks vacation mentality. It is amazingly refreshing.
Why is it so wrong to want to know which 40-ish hours you'll be working each week? Knowing when your time off is, that's refreshing. Knowing that I'm not expected to jump up and run at 3am on a weekend is refreshing. Constant on-call hell (with no benefits) for a tiny bit more than I make is not.
Who said it was on call? We set our schedules how we want.
My normal scheduled availability is 09:00 until about 11:30. I return to work around 14:00 and work until 18:00. But then I usually take an hour or so break in the middle of that afternoon when the kids come home. Every couple of nights there is typically a number of after hours work needed to fill in my average 42 hour week.
I usually end up not working much on either Thursdays or Fridays most weeks because I schedule windows server updates and reboots for the weekends. If I don't want to do it on a weekend, I will plan them ahead for evenings.
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@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.In return what can an employee expect from the organization ?
Depending on skill, an hourly rate between $30 and $50.
Seriously ? Is that all an employee can expect from your company ? An hourly wage ? pity ...
I'm sure they have healthcare, dental, vision, 401k, etc too. What is to be expected?
Actually, nope nothing except an IRA match. Everything else is in the rate.
wow, just wow. I would never work for you then if this is the attitude you have towards your employees.
Break out of your 8-5 and 2 weeks vacation mentality. It is amazingly refreshing.
Why is it so wrong to want to know which 40-ish hours you'll be working each week? Knowing when your time off is, that's refreshing. Knowing that I'm not expected to jump up and run at 3am on a weekend is refreshing. Constant on-call hell (with no benefits) for a tiny bit more than I make is not.
It's not wrong. Different jobs work for different people. I wouldn't do that either personally. I wouldn't judge someone for taking it either though.
It is called flexibility.
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@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Veet said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I work 24/7. I may only average 6 to 8 hours per day and 42 hours per week. But those hours are spread out over all 24 hours of the day and all 7 days of the week.
Any employee of ours will be expected to do the same.In return what can an employee expect from the organization ?
Depending on skill, an hourly rate between $30 and $50.
Seriously ? Is that all an employee can expect from your company ? An hourly wage ? pity ...
I'm sure they have healthcare, dental, vision, 401k, etc too. What is to be expected?
Actually, nope nothing except an IRA match. Everything else is in the rate.
wow, just wow. I would never work for you then if this is the attitude you have towards your employees.
Break out of your 8-5 and 2 weeks vacation mentality. It is amazingly refreshing.
Why is it so wrong to want to know which 40-ish hours you'll be working each week? Knowing when your time off is, that's refreshing. Knowing that I'm not expected to jump up and run at 3am on a weekend is refreshing. Constant on-call hell (with no benefits) for a tiny bit more than I make is not.
It's not wrong. Different jobs work for different people. I wouldn't do that either personally. I wouldn't judge someone for taking it either though.
It is called flexibility.
I made an incorrect assumption.
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I would hire someone if they didnt have a home lab.
Oops...Sorry off topic. -
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
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@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
What about the increased costs of paying for health insurance, vision and dental though? I guess they are somewhat supplemented by that $1614, but that is a considerable amount of money.
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@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
i'll take a $1600 hit for having my nights and weekends and not being on call 24/7
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@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
i'll take a $1600 hit for having my nights and weekends and not being on call 24/7
He's not on call. He explained that before. I made the same assumption.
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@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
i'll take a $1600 hit for having my nights and weekends and not being on call 24/7
He's not on call. He explained that before. I made the same assumption.
if you are working on weekends updating servers then you are on call (in my opinion). On call to me means you work when the client has time for you to work. IE you put your life on hold for the client.
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@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
What about the increased costs of paying for health insurance, vision and dental though? I guess they are somewhat supplemented by that $1614, but that is a considerable amount of money.
That is a different part of the equation. I was strictly comparing the difference in asking for PTO.
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@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
i'll take a $1600 hit for having my nights and weekends and not being on call 24/7
He's not on call. He explained that before. I made the same assumption.
if you are working on weekends updating servers then you are on call (in my opinion). On call to me means you work when the client has time for you to work. IE you put your life on hold for the client.
On call to me is unscheduled work
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@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@JaredBusch said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Regarding paid time off. I get $2/hour more for not having 80 hours of PTO.
If my rate was $30, then in a 2087 hour year I would earn $62,610 with $2,400 of that being the 80 hours of PTO. So that means I was paid $60,210 for the 2007 worked hours.
So making $2 more means a rate of $32 in a 2007 hour year (assuming unpaid 80 hours were taken) means I was paid $64,224.
That is $1,614 more than the full 2087 hour with PTO $30 wage.
i'll take a $1600 hit for having my nights and weekends and not being on call 24/7
He's not on call. He explained that before. I made the same assumption.
if you are working on weekends updating servers then you are on call (in my opinion). On call to me means you work when the client has time for you to work. IE you put your life on hold for the client.
On call to me is unscheduled work
http://definitions.uslegal.com/o/on-call-employees/
Correct. -
@david.wiese Point being that @JaredBusch has a schedule. It just changes week to week. I don't know how much advanced notice he is given, but hypothetically it doesn't really have to interfere with his life that much.
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I kinda do and kinda don't have a home lab.
I have Virtual Box as well as I use Vagrant. Most of my stuff these days are web/dev related so the extent of my home stuff is little more than web servers. I fire up a VM to play with Node or PHP7 or whatever.
I don't know if this qualifies as a "home lab" as I consider it just basic dev tools. I also toy with VMs from VULTR and Digital Ocean.
When it comes to education I have two general ideas. One is that if I need to learn things very specific to tasks my boss is telling me I must cover, I expect the business to help with training. I expect them to let me take an online course or two, buy a book, or buy a service and that I can study as I go and learn "on the job".
If they want me to do new things and learn new things that were never on my job app, then it makes sense they help cover some education for it.I also like this because I can learn the thing while actually using company data. That is to say, rather than being in a generic lab trying to learn, I can do it with real world data and problems, which is much more useful.
On the other hand, if I want to learn something new, or something to improve myself in a general sense that isn't related to tasks at work, then of course I study on my own.
My problem with the home lab idea is that it's not easy to build the environment I want to study. It's not that easy to build a home lab for studying Cisco edge routing and advanced networking. There are some virtual environments and stuff but I can't afford hundreds and even thousands of dollars worth of switches and routers to play with for a home lab. It's harder to study those than it is to, say, spin up a FreeNAS server or OwnCloud.
Personally I don't like the idea of being weeded out based on this. I would think that personal qualities come first, experience second, and passion third.
It's getting harder and harder to find good people. I think people are becoming more selfish and self-serving, with growing animosity toward "the man" and the corporate overlords. You know, those people who make all the money and drive Cadillacs while paying minimal to the techs who actually run the business and keep things flowing. People think businesses are just out to use them.
The point being that I would much rather hire a person because they are trustworthy and dedicated and love the work and are a decent person. Ruling out selfish, self-absorbed, arrogant, job-hopping, money-focused, disconnected people. I don't give a crap if they have a home lab if they are only in it for the money. They will jump ship at the next highest offer and play that game. I wouldn't want to hire somebody who is already a disgruntled employee from day 1 for no other reason than he hates having to work for someone.
Once I've found somebody who seems to be excited to work at the company and knows something about it, who proves to be a decent human being and isn't simply job-hopping up the "ladder", then I'd move on to knowledge/experience.
If they prove to be good and experienced at the core aspects of the job, I can always train for the rest and negotiate salary based on their experience and how much I think I need to train them for the position.
Where I work now we've seen 15 people hired and fired in a little over a year in basic positions. Mostly they quit or were fired because they were not good people. Whiners, complainers, back biters, lazy, job hopping. Who cares if they had a home lab? They were not good people, they didn't work well with others, they were lazy and didn't want to learn anything new or take on any tasks outside their small sphere. They were jealous of whatever pleasures the CEO had and thus built up animosity toward the company.
Find good people first. Train them. Keep them when you got them!
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@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese Point being that @JaredBusch has a schedule. It just changes week to week. I don't know how much advanced notice he is given, but hypothetically it doesn't really have to interfere with his life that much.
How does one plan their life if the above is true? A schedule that varies week to week is something I gave up in my early 20s. Plus any work I do outside of M-F 9-6 is paid as overtime and scheduled in advance. I wouldn't give that up for $1600 a year.
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@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese Point being that @JaredBusch has a schedule. It just changes week to week. I don't know how much advanced notice he is given, but hypothetically it doesn't really have to interfere with his life that much.
How does one plan their life if the above is true? A schedule that varies week to week is something I gave up in my early 20s. Plus any work I do outside of M-F 9-6 is paid as overtime and scheduled in advance. I wouldn't give that up for $1600 a year.
You are locked on the wrong number. that number s strictly the difference in 80 hours of PTO versus no PTO. THat number has nothign to do with any other part of the conversation.
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@RojoLoco said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@wirestyle22 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese Point being that @JaredBusch has a schedule. It just changes week to week. I don't know how much advanced notice he is given, but hypothetically it doesn't really have to interfere with his life that much.
How does one plan their life if the above is true?
Quite well.
