Phones new location
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@Dashrender Quality headsets will run you $50
Cheap desk phones will run you $80 or less. They will only have 100mbit pass through
Decent desk phones with gigabit pass through will run you $100-$120
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PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
If PoE and new cables were not possible, you'd still want VoIP. If those things make it too expensive, then it is those features that you have ruled out, not VoIP itself.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The problem with upgrading the old system is that every penny that you spend goes into technical debt. You are investing in a system that is already antiquated and you know will just cost more and more to support over time. So that is not a good place for money to go. It is money "lost" completely, even though it holds off the larger cost of a migration. This is rarely a wise financial move.
The only part of the current system in our main location that is EOF is the brain. The InterTel digital handsets and the backplane that supports them is all currently still supported.
That said, I definitely understand where you are going here.
Get the new system now and get the benefits immediately and reduce the total amount of cost between now and the eventual migration. Less work overall, probably less money overall, and the most features the soonest.
I agree that long term assuming we went VOIP this would be a savings in the long run. As for features - the only feature that we know of that we don't currently have that we want is reporting. The vendor wants something like $6500 for the reporting package. It's my understanding that I can get nearly any type of reports out I want free with Asterisk.
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@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
Fewer phone models are shipping with power adapters. For example the Yealink T3X series does, but the newer (better IMO) T4X series does not.
This means you need to think about the cost of 22 power adapters. that is $220. That is the cost difference from a non-PoE switch to a PoE switch.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
Fewer phone models are shipping with power adapters. For example the Yealink T3X series does, but the newer (better IMO) T4X series does not.
This means you need to think about the cost of 22 power adapters. that is $220. That is the cost difference from a non-PoE switch to a PoE switch.
The cheaper phones still have the bricks. There are lots that still come with bricks.
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@scottalanmiller said:
You can do extensions for free with SIP softphones. Or you can get hard phones down around $80 if you need to cut costs. Far from free, but it doesn't have to be a crazy investment either.
While this is good for mobile workers, I don't consider it best practice for office workers (though I'll admit it's a personal bias). The cost of the phones for the new location won't kill us.
It's only when I compare buying all new phones for the old location that it becomes an issue, and there is no way we'd deploy softphones in that environment with rare exception.
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@Dashrender said:
The only part of the current system in our main location that is EOF is the brain. The InterTel digital handsets and the backplane that supports them is all currently still supported.
That said, I definitely understand where you are going here.
Good that it is still supported. But it is still a 1990s phone system. It's a dramatically outdated technology stack.
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@Dashrender said:
I agree that long term assuming we went VOIP this would be a savings in the long run. As for features - the only feature that we know of that we don't currently have that we want is reporting. The vendor wants something like $6500 for the reporting package. It's my understanding that I can get nearly any type of reports out I want free with Asterisk.
It's open, so you can pull anything that you want out of it. Anything. Reporting isn't built in, but nothing stops you from getting reports out of the logs. Or you can add reporting packages to it. Or make your own. Sky is the limit.
You might find that there are a lot of features that you want once you know what modern phone systems can do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Why would you have to run new cabling? Do people not have computers? What's making you want to run new cabling?
Nothing wrong with new cables, but that, I assume, is purely something that you "want" and not something that you need. So don't include that in your cost comparison of the two systems as that is purely misleading. It's not a part of the new system at all and is just a separate cabling plant upgrade that you are looking to add in. That's fine, but you can't put it in the "cons" column of the VoIP system.
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
Speaking of 100 vs 1000 - we simply don't need 1000 to the endpoint, except for the x-ray equipment. So using the less expensive $80 phones should be fine.
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@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
If PoE and new cables were not possible, you'd still want VoIP. If those things make it too expensive, then it is those features that you have ruled out, not VoIP itself.
Ok, since the Yealink's I was looking at before all came with power bricks, I suppose we could get away from the POE being a requirement, but then we'd have to put in UPSs in the places where phones must work even when there is a power outage.
Plus I'll want POE for my wireless network we'll be putting in as well.
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@Dashrender said:
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
Yes, if you have non-PC location phones new cable would be needed. That's a pain
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@Dashrender said:
Ok, since the Yealink's I was looking at before all came with power bricks, I suppose we could get away from the POE being a requirement, but then we'd have to put in UPSs in the places where phones must work even when there is a power outage.
Yes, UPSs are needed if you need the phones to keep working and everything along the chain is on UPS already. If you have computers on UPSs then you just add the phones to the existing UPS and nothing more is needed. It's always been best practice for all computers to be on UPS (it protects them from damage) so hopefully no new UPSs are needed.
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@Dashrender said:
Plus I'll want POE for my wireless network we'll be putting in as well.
Lots of great reasons to use PoE. PoE is really cool and clean. I even use some PoE at home. Just evaluate it on its own rather than as a "determination" of VoIP vs. non-VoIP.
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@Dashrender said:
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
@scottalanmiller said:
Yes, if you have non-PC location phones new cable would be needed. That's a pain
CAT3 fully supports 10mb ethernet and PoE. It was in the standard in fact.
Since these phones have no computers behind them, you have no need to worry about bandwidth.
There is not a voice call that will take 10mb ever.
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@scottalanmiller said:
You might find that there are a lot of features that you want once you know what modern phone systems can do.
Can you provide some examples?
Thinks I know of - ability to take your phone with you to any other ethernet port. We can do that now in our VOIP space - we simply don't
Follow me calling - this would only apply for the Office Manager (CEO) and the physicians. While it could possibly be handy time to time for the Office Manager, the docs definitely don't want it. it's so bad that the docs don't even have voice mail for fear that a message will be left and not checked for days or longer.
For those that have voicemail (there are around 10 of us) it might be nice to have the voice mail delivered to our email, in text and voice form.
Desktop dialing - OK this one I would like. Not sure it would be overly useful for staff - though during call backs, if the number could be pulled from our EHR, that could be really nice.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Ok, since the Yealink's I was looking at before all came with power bricks, I suppose we could get away from the POE being a requirement, but then we'd have to put in UPSs in the places where phones must work even when there is a power outage.
Yes, UPSs are needed if you need the phones to keep working and everything along the chain is on UPS already. If you have computers on UPSs then you just add the phones to the existing UPS and nothing more is needed. It's always been best practice for all computers to be on UPS (it protects them from damage) so hopefully no new UPSs are needed.
We don't have UPSs anywhere except my desk.
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I am also considering cutting down the number of handsets we have. Currently we have a phone in every patient room/clinic room. This is really unnecessary. The phones are primarily used to call the language line when we don't have a translator onsite. In this case, having the room in the privacy of the patient/clinic room is nice.
I think I could reduce this to three wireless VOIP phones to cover our nine clinic rooms. In the new building I could reduce seven phones to 2 wireless ones.
Thoughts? -
@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
@scottalanmiller said:
Yes, if you have non-PC location phones new cable would be needed. That's a pain
CAT3 fully supports 10mb ethernet and PoE. It was in the standard in fact.
Since these phones have no computers behind them, you have no need to worry about bandwidth.
There is not a voice call that will take 10mb ever.
Would I have to put new wall plates on those locations? Obviously I'd have to change the cabling plant from the 66 blocks to patch panels, etc.
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@Dashrender said:
Can you provide some examples? [Of VoIP features we might not think of...]
Some ideas, I don't know what features you have currently so some of these might not apply:
- Complex automated prompts
- High availability or otherwise simple failover in case of hardware failure
- No additional hardware to keep or maintain or replace
- Users can transparently move not only between rooms but between sites and even to home or mobile
- You can easily send logs to services like Loggly and keep an eye on things
- You can monitor the phones using the same tools that you use for the rest of your infrastructure
- You can take your phone system offsite or do an offsite failover easily, even if the building burns down
- You can move to SIP trunks, which carry many benefits of their own
- You can do free calling between sites or to homes
- Unlimited conference rooms
- Ring groups, hunt groups, etc.
- Ability to support yourself without needing vendor intervention
- Upgrades are free
- Video phones for free
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@Dashrender said:
We don't have UPSs anywhere except my desk.
No important end user equipment that needs protecting? Do you need all of the phones to keep working if none of the computers do?
