Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
and I'll argue that it's never actually a break even, because in a simple break even, situations like Covid-19 screw you, you suddenly find yourself WAY underwater on these employees - so there has to be an upside - like PR, etc.
Again, not a true assumption. You assume you can't lay them off, that you can't demand more gov't money, that you don't get subsidies for that (companies did, in droves, having those employees actually made HUGE additional profits), etc. COVID was a windfall for companies in those situations, rather than a curse.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@black3dynamite said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
some employees just can't do it - they can't stay on task while at home
But can they in the office? These are the same people who derail others in the office.
Studies show that people stay MORE on task at home. If we cared about people being on task, the office would have been ruled out long ago. So clearly, no one using an office is concerned with this, so this is moot.
Sure, a few people are useless anywhere, but the majority work better at home.
I'm 50/50, I prefer to work from home but with an option to work at the office.
why? because as scott mentioned you want company sanctioned waste time to talk to fellow employees? lol
Of course, why else would someone go to the office? Not that there are no reasons. But let's be honest, offices rarely have the nice desks, computers, monitors, chairs, etc. that we have at home. Plus you have to commute. When I worked in hedge funds, people openly talked about how they worked long hours to avoid their families that they didn't like. So there are clearly alternative reasons, and everyone wants a change of scenery sometimes, but you get that with WFH anyway as you can work anywhere.
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.
Hell I only have one example of someone who comes close, and it's not as good - he has a dual monitor setup on a tiny 3 ft wide x 28 in deep desk he's working from... He has a reasonable chair, similar to what he has in is office.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
I wonder why they have such nice setups pre-covid work from the office - why bother with a nice setup at home, unless they are spending a ton of time on that system doing non work things.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions. We tend to issue out most people docks for home and work when issuing laptops.
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@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
Actually I'm only salaried in the sense I get paid 40hrs if I work under 40hrs. I worked out a deal with my employer serval years back. I get paid overtime or for extra straight hours if not overtime (like if working extra on a week with a holiday when it's not technically overtime).
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
We either provide or re-reimburse for these expenses unless someone wants something crazy. The desk itself is the only thing we don't cover.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I wonder why they have such nice setups pre-covid work from the office - why bother with a nice setup at home, unless they are spending a ton of time on that system doing non work things.
Think about people you'd actually want to employ in non-manual labor jobs... you want people who are driven, creative, interesting, etc. Whether you write, do art, play games, code, design, etc. you need that setup at home. If you don't have one at home, how do those people do 95% of what is interesting out there?
I grew up in the 80s and all my friends had this at home just to be able to do homework. My kids have an office setup in their room. I did as a kid. All my friends did. How do you effectively even do your homework as a student, your taxes as an adult, communicate with other people (assuming you are social), etc. if you don't?
I know it's a millennial thing ot be inefficient and out of touch intentionally. but outside of "failure culture" it's always been ubiquitous.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk
I like how "US Department of Labor" means "to scott at least" around here.
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@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
We either provide or re-reimburse for these expenses unless someone wants something crazy. The desk itself is the only thing we don't cover.
Weird to single that one out, generally the longest lasting piece and pretty valuable to the efficiency equation. But, I suppose, it'll last so long that it's like investing in their next job.
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@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
Actually I'm only salaried in the sense I get paid 40hrs if I work under 40hrs. I worked out a deal with my employer serval years back. I get paid overtime or for extra straight hours if not overtime (like if working extra on a week with a holiday when it's not technically overtime).
I'm pretty sure, at least in the US, we've agreed that most IT work would still qualify for OT. though I'm fully prepared to be wrong.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
Actually I'm only salaried in the sense I get paid 40hrs if I work under 40hrs. I worked out a deal with my employer serval years back. I get paid overtime or for extra straight hours if not overtime (like if working extra on a week with a holiday when it's not technically overtime).
I'm pretty sure, at least in the US, we've agreed that most IT work would still qualify for OT. though I'm fully prepared to be wrong.
On average, it does, when not salaried.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I wonder why they have such nice setups pre-covid work from the office - why bother with a nice setup at home, unless they are spending a ton of time on that system doing non work things.
Think about people you'd actually want to employ in non-manual labor jobs... you want people who are driven, creative, interesting, etc. Whether you write, do art, play games, code, design, etc. you need that setup at home. If you don't have one at home, how do those people do 95% of what is interesting out there?
I grew up in the 80s and all my friends had this at home just to be able to do homework. My kids have an office setup in their room. I did as a kid. All my friends did. How do you effectively even do your homework as a student, your taxes as an adult, communicate with other people (assuming you are social), etc. if you don't?
I know it's a millennial thing ot be inefficient and out of touch intentionally. but outside of "failure culture" it's always been ubiquitous.
a typical worker doesn't need a nicer than in office setup at home to do taxes.. that's just crazy!
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk
I like how "US Department of Labor" means "to scott at least" around here.
I don't recall reading anywhere that states something like that.
everything I recall reading specifically works around 40 hours. because of you are exempt, then the number of hours is actually meaningless. But if you are salary non-exempt, then you still get OT, and I'm only aware of OT happening at 4+ hours, not 50-60+.Now that comment was slated toward the exempt folks, so really it again, makes it irrelevant.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
Actually I'm only salaried in the sense I get paid 40hrs if I work under 40hrs. I worked out a deal with my employer serval years back. I get paid overtime or for extra straight hours if not overtime (like if working extra on a week with a holiday when it's not technically overtime).
I'm pretty sure, at least in the US, we've agreed that most IT work would still qualify for OT. though I'm fully prepared to be wrong.
On average, it does, when not salaried.
This is where salary's breakdown becomes important - exempt vs non-exempt.... and this isn't generally up to the company, it's up to the law. No one is just "salary" they are either of the above type of salary.
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@RandyBlevins said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
COVID-19 has push large tech companies like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon to be WFH (at least at the moment). These companies decided against it, even though they deliver technologies that make it possible.
Microsoft has really been push Teams though all this and pushed companies in every industry to use at as remote collaboration solution. Amazon just made a deal with slack and will be delivering slack video calls through Chime. Amazon will also license slack for every employee in their company. Not to mention the advantages that AWS and Azure already provide to 100% remote workforce.
In addition to these companies pushing their customers to adopt WFH, they have hired tens of thousands of IT employees during the pandemic. These companies will have to provide relocation services for these employees. Sure they have the money to provide relocation, but the challenge of providing the service means they have to provide housing which may be very difficult to do in headquarter areas in a short period of time. 10k people looking for a house in Redmond, WA would be challenging to say the least.
With a rapid hire rate, push for customers to adapt WFH, and challenges related to relocation; will these companies go remote?
I think they will. Facebook is planning to do wfh/remote work indefinitely now. Amazon already has positions that are completely remote so it's not a stretch that they would have more.
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@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
nice desk/chair - what?
I personally know no one who has a nicer WFH that was working from an office before Covid, than what they have at work.I know no one who didn't. Of course, I tend to know real workers more often than not, and not like doctors or other "professionals". Those often don't even have computers at home. But they can't work from home generally, either. But basically anyone with working value that isn't blue collar, you know their home setups are better than work because the office almost never cares and at home, they always do.
Most of ours do, of course most of our people will work from home here and there on some days (we allow a lot of flexibility as a family first company) such as work from home when kids or sick, out of school etc. plus, we have a lot of people that will do work after hours from home (like myself) because we just simply get more done without the distractions.
And your salary - so you like to just give your time to your employer? I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk, but if you have any self respect, wouldn't you demand that your company provide you all the resources to get that job done, even if that means working at home?
Perhaps one argues that since the pay for these professionals is 6 figures plus, that is the self respect that you have, and it's "understood" that you will spend some of that money maintaining a home workstation to do work while at home?
OK, I can accept that. I'm not accustomed to working with/around people at that level, so I don't see it. I'm more akin to the blue collar worker Scott mentioned earlier.
Actually I'm only salaried in the sense I get paid 40hrs if I work under 40hrs. I worked out a deal with my employer serval years back. I get paid overtime or for extra straight hours if not overtime (like if working extra on a week with a holiday when it's not technically overtime).
I'm pretty sure, at least in the US, we've agreed that most IT work would still qualify for OT. though I'm fully prepared to be wrong.
On average, it does, when not salaried.
for us Desktop support & Sys Admins are non-exempt, but as Systems Engineers and Lead Architects we are exempt normally, but you can always negotiate your pay and terms. Software Engineers are exempt as well.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I wonder why they have such nice setups pre-covid work from the office - why bother with a nice setup at home, unless they are spending a ton of time on that system doing non work things.
Think about people you'd actually want to employ in non-manual labor jobs... you want people who are driven, creative, interesting, etc. Whether you write, do art, play games, code, design, etc. you need that setup at home. If you don't have one at home, how do those people do 95% of what is interesting out there?
I grew up in the 80s and all my friends had this at home just to be able to do homework. My kids have an office setup in their room. I did as a kid. All my friends did. How do you effectively even do your homework as a student, your taxes as an adult, communicate with other people (assuming you are social), etc. if you don't?
I know it's a millennial thing ot be inefficient and out of touch intentionally. but outside of "failure culture" it's always been ubiquitous.
a typical worker doesn't need a nicer than in office setup at home to do taxes.. that's just crazy!
Need? no. But every little thing you do in life works better when you have a place to do it. It adds up. People without home offices generally struggle to even do shopping easily.
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@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@scottalanmiller said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
@Dashrender said in Will Tech Giants actually adopt WFH?:
I mean i know that professional (to scott at least) means you're putting in 50-60 hrs/wk
I like how "US Department of Labor" means "to scott at least" around here.
I don't recall reading anywhere that states something like that.
everything I recall reading specifically works around 40 hours. because of you are exempt, then the number of hours is actually meaningless. But if you are salary non-exempt, then you still get OT, and I'm only aware of OT happening at 4+ hours, not 50-60+.Now that comment was slated toward the exempt folks, so really it again, makes it irrelevant.
Is the US, to the extent that it even is used in legal contracts, "Professional Day" is 10 hours and "Professional Week" is 50.
