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    Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer

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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
      last edited by

      @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

      As soon as you have the Linux/Windows box or VM doing anything useful, the "up and running on 400MB RAM" is no longer so...

      That's totally not true. You can do things like email servers, web servers, DNS servers, even PBX with 400MB of RAM. It's tight and not ideal, but totally doable in the real world.

      That's my point, from the Windows world, that's an "idle" number. But on Linux, idle is more likely around 80MB and 400MB is more of a "with usage."

      ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • ObsolesceO
        Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

        You can do things like email servers, web servers, DNS servers, even PBX with 400MB of RAM. It's tight and not ideal, but totally doable in the real world.

        Doable? Sure. But definitely not practical at any kind of real scale. Could some SMB run their DNS server or little web server on a GUI-less Linux server with 400MB RAM, definitely! And very likely done in most of them! That's likely the way to go vs Windows... wtf would anyone use Windows to do that?

        HOWEVER, that was not my main point.... I suppose I should have each paragraph as it's own reply.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • IRJI
          IRJ
          last edited by

          @Obsolesce Windows Server Core is not really able to be utilized in the same ways as your typical linux server. Many of Microsoft's own features are not supported on core (at least that used to be the case). I am sure Microsoft continues to add features for it to support additional MS product and services, but what is the real use case?

          Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server? Even Microsoft is pushing SQL server on Linux vs their own server platform. I have gotten so many emails from Microsoft almost begging people to run SQL server on Linux. The only real world cases to run server core are with domain controllers , dns servers, dhcp ,etc. Those were the real use cases behind core. 95% of your Windows admins are terrified of core servers, though. It is just fact. I have seen it everywhere I have worked.

          scottalanmillerS ObsolesceO 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • scottalanmillerS
            scottalanmiller @IRJ
            last edited by

            @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

            Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server? Even Microsoft is pushing SQL server on Linux vs their own server platform. I have gotten so many emails from Microsoft almost begging people to run SQL server on Linux. The only real world cases to run server core are with domain controllers , dns servers, dhcp ,etc. Those were the real use cases behind core. 95% of your Windows admins are terrified of core servers, though. It is just fact. I have seen it everywhere I have worked.

            It's true. The same factor that makes the majority of companies choose Windows (because they think that finding GUI only Windows admins is easy and everything else is hard) makes them refuse Windows Core installs. Literally every Windows GUI-less admin that I know is a Linux admin, too. So essentially, to be able to run Core you need all the cost of a Linux admin, but without the benefits of Linux from a licensing standpoint.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • IRJI
              IRJ
              last edited by

              I tried to find benchmarks comparing Windows Server with Windows Server core and Linux but I was unable to find anything after a few minutes of using duckduckgo.

              I dont think any organizations are even really testing this and making any real effort towards this. I have seen organizations deploy core for AD type servers and even in those cases Core seems to be in the minority. There is no reason to have a GUI on a domain controller. It is extremely stupid when you think about it, yet almost everyone does it.

              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • ObsolesceO
                Obsolesce @IRJ
                last edited by

                @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                Many of Microsoft's own features are not supported on core

                Like what? Core does everything I can think of... Are you thinking of Nano?

                IRJI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ObsolesceO
                  Obsolesce @IRJ
                  last edited by

                  @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                  Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server?

                  Nobody in their right mind would do that. Again, like Scott, why add in things that were never part of any point?

                  Let me refresh the point:

                  1. Scott originally compared full blown Windows Desktop GUI plus web browser and other app RAM usage, to a minimal gui-less Linux server RAM usage.

                  This was what I was arguing against, that the comparison was not fair and was not set up correctly.

                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • ObsolesceO
                    Obsolesce
                    last edited by

                    Everything else was a Strawman.

                    ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • scottalanmillerS
                      scottalanmiller @IRJ
                      last edited by

                      @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                      I tried to find benchmarks comparing Windows Server with Windows Server core and Linux but I was unable to find anything after a few minutes of using duckduckgo.

                      I dont think any organizations are even really testing this and making any real effort towards this. I have seen organizations deploy core for AD type servers and even in those cases Core seems to be in the minority. There is no reason to have a GUI on a domain controller. It is extremely stupid when you think about it, yet almost everyone does it.

                      We deploy core, but only for the cases you mention. And most of our customers don't want it because they feel no Windows admin could use it.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                        last edited by

                        @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                        @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                        Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server?

                        Nobody in their right mind would do that. Again, like Scott, why add in things that were never part of any point?

                        Let me refresh the point:

                        1. Scott originally compared full blown Windows Desktop GUI plus web browser and other app RAM usage, to a minimal gui-less Linux server RAM usage.

                        This was what I was arguing against, that the comparison was not fair and was not set up correctly.

                        Except I was specifically making the comparison on use case, not on technology. So the bases for your correction doesn't make sense. I pointed out that one was assumed to have a GUI and be used graphically, and one was assumed to be a headless server. So my comparison wasn't Windows vs Linux, it was use case vs. use case.

                        ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • ObsolesceO
                          Obsolesce @Obsolesce
                          last edited by Obsolesce

                          @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                          Everything else was a Strawman.

                          So keeping things equal:

                          a) Fresh Windows 10 + Google Chrome web browsing
                          b) Fresh Ubuntu Workstation (Gnome) + Google Chrome web browsing.

                          a) Fedora Server minimal install + (FLAMP)
                          b) There is no Windows equivalent... Linux is the pure winner here by lack of Windows equivalent.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • IRJI
                            IRJ @Obsolesce
                            last edited by

                            @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                            @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                            Many of Microsoft's own features are not supported on core

                            Like what? Core does everything I can think of... Are you thinking of Nano?

                            Yes I must have been thinking of nano. I have been a Windows admin in awhile. I know 2012 Core was missing features, it does look like 2016 does have nearly everything.

                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @IRJ
                              last edited by

                              @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                              @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                              @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                              Many of Microsoft's own features are not supported on core

                              Like what? Core does everything I can think of... Are you thinking of Nano?

                              Yes I must have been thinking of nano. I have been a Windows admin in awhile. I know 2012 Core was missing features, it does look like 2016 does have nearly everything.

                              Has nearly everything, but still tons and tons of Windows-only workloads don't run on it. Try running a QuickBooks server or a AviMark server on Core. Don't think that it works. Microsoft's own tools work, yeah. But Windows exists essentially exclusively for the third party ecosystem which almost always demands a GUI. Linux could have that same problem, but its ecosystem of users simply wouldn't put up with that, and it is that user base that has protected it and not Windows.

                              IRJI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • ObsolesceO
                                Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                                last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server?

                                Nobody in their right mind would do that. Again, like Scott, why add in things that were never part of any point?

                                Let me refresh the point:

                                1. Scott originally compared full blown Windows Desktop GUI plus web browser and other app RAM usage, to a minimal gui-less Linux server RAM usage.

                                This was what I was arguing against, that the comparison was not fair and was not set up correctly.

                                Except I was specifically making the comparison on use case, not on technology. So the bases for your correction doesn't make sense. I pointed out that one was assumed to have a GUI and be used graphically, and one was assumed to be a headless server. So my comparison wasn't Windows vs Linux, it was use case vs. use case.

                                What use case comparison involves Windows GUI + web browsing versus GUI-less Linux minimal install?

                                scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • IRJI
                                  IRJ @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                  @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                  @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                  @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                  Many of Microsoft's own features are not supported on core

                                  Like what? Core does everything I can think of... Are you thinking of Nano?

                                  Yes I must have been thinking of nano. I have been a Windows admin in awhile. I know 2012 Core was missing features, it does look like 2016 does have nearly everything.

                                  Has nearly everything, but still tons and tons of Windows-only workloads don't run on it. Try running a QuickBooks server or a AviMark server on Core. Don't think that it works. Microsoft's own tools work, yeah. But Windows exists essentially exclusively for the third party ecosystem which almost always demands a GUI. Linux could have that same problem, but its ecosystem of users simply wouldn't put up with that, and it is that user base that has protected it and not Windows.

                                  Right no vendor supports it. Because they are equally scared of it. It only works for windows services.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • IRJI
                                    IRJ
                                    last edited by

                                    @Obsolesce what percentage of your windows servers for domain services are core at where you work now? I would assume less than 50%

                                    ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • ObsolesceO
                                      Obsolesce @IRJ
                                      last edited by

                                      @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                      @Obsolesce what percentage of your windows servers for domain services are core at where you work now? I would assume less than 50%

                                      100%

                                      IRJI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • IRJI
                                        IRJ @Obsolesce
                                        last edited by

                                        @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                        @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                        @Obsolesce what percentage of your windows servers for domain services are core at where you work now? I would assume less than 50%

                                        100%

                                        1502923a-8ed9-4e8d-b3b6-2f24dbe231ac-image.png

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                                          last edited by

                                          @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                          @scottalanmiller said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                          @Obsolesce said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                          @IRJ said in Client-side Virtualization - CompTIA A+ 220-1001 Prof Messer:

                                          Who would license Windows Server to run an inefficient web server?

                                          Nobody in their right mind would do that. Again, like Scott, why add in things that were never part of any point?

                                          Let me refresh the point:

                                          1. Scott originally compared full blown Windows Desktop GUI plus web browser and other app RAM usage, to a minimal gui-less Linux server RAM usage.

                                          This was what I was arguing against, that the comparison was not fair and was not set up correctly.

                                          Except I was specifically making the comparison on use case, not on technology. So the bases for your correction doesn't make sense. I pointed out that one was assumed to have a GUI and be used graphically, and one was assumed to be a headless server. So my comparison wasn't Windows vs Linux, it was use case vs. use case.

                                          What use case comparison involves Windows GUI + web browsing versus GUI-less Linux minimal install?

                                          Lots. Like when you are using RDS versus using a PBX.

                                          It's that we are comparing different use cases is the point. Not comparing the same use case in two different places.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • brianwinkelmannB
                                            brianwinkelmann
                                            last edited by

                                            Very Interesting!

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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