Writing a Cover Letter
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
Thanks,
A.J. -
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
I think it would be a better post interview question. One asked as they are walking out that doesn't have an effect on hiring. I can tell you that they probably didn't submit one because your ad was one of 20-30 that they had applied to that week..
Exactly. If you really are hung up on requiring a cover letter, I would include in the ad who they should address it to, such as you, and give them a couple questions to answer as part of their letter. The other reason I hate cover letters is because I never know what the employer is looking for in a cover letter. If you give them questions to answer as part of a cover letter, you will get much stronger results.
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@thanksaj said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
You don't have the make this clear during the interview process either, this is private criteria that they should meet by just "being themselves".... as much as I hate that saying.
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@coliver said:
@thanksaj said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
You don't have the make this clear during the interview process either, this is private criteria that they should meet by just "being themselves".... as much as I hate that saying.
I agree. Something like motivation, for example. If you have to ask someone to tell you about their motivation, then they don't have it. When you see people who are motivated and driven, you can tell from their resume, by the way they talk, and not just what they talk about. Ask them to describe some projects they've done on their own and for work. Do they get excited when they talk? Do they talk about the little details? Indicators like this are way more meaningful to me than any direct answer to a direct question.
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@coliver said:
I can tell you that they probably didn't submit one because your ad was one of 20-30 that they had applied to that week..
Pretty much
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
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I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
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@IRJ said:
I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
As well as @Minion-Queen and @Katie
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@coliver said:
@IRJ said:
I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
As well as @Minion-Queen and @Katie
Agreed.
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Wow I don't have time to read the full thread right now but here is my first short answer:
A cover letter if requested should be there (I don't require one in general).
A cover letter gives you a chance to highlight what skills are going to be the most useful to me the prospective employer based on my job description. Because other wise I have to sift through the resume.
I will read this all more thoroughly later tonight when I actually have some time.
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@Minion-Queen said:
Wow I don't have time to read the full thread right now but here is my first short answer:
A cover letter if requested should be there (I don't require one in general).
A cover letter gives you a chance to highlight what skills are going to be the most useful to me the prospective employer based on my job description. Because other wise I have to sift through the resume.
I will read this all more thoroughly later tonight when I actually have some time.
You mean you're busy?! NO WAY!
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@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
No you aren't if they couldn't take the time to get someone to help them out if they are bad at spelling and grammar then do you really want them to work with you? And for the record I know I am horrible but no one has time to read my posts on here first
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@Minion-Queen said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
No you aren't if they couldn't take the time to get someone to help them out if they are bad at spelling and grammar then do you really want them to work with you? And for the record I know I am horrible but no one has time to read my posts on here first
Hey, I still proofread for you fairly frequently. Just not on little posts. It's only on the bigger stuff.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
Misspellings on a resume are no bueno. Even if your spelling and grammar is poor, you should make sure its correct on your resume.
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@IRJ said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
Misspellings on a resume are no bueno. Even if your spelling and grammar is poor, you should make sure its correct on your resume.
Especially as this isn't a one time, quick document. You assume that this is the most important single piece of paper (or few pieces) that this person ever has or ever will write. Nothing will get more scrutiny from the writer and nothing should have more peer and family and editorial review from other people than that one, very small, document. If they can't get good grammar and spelling there it indicates a lot more than that they just can't write to save their lives - it means that they don't understand when to get help from others, they aren't taking the process seriously, they are sloppy, etc. It's such a short document, there is no excuse for not getting it right.
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I'd normally agree but it would mean ruling out over half the applicants!
Although for many of the applicants, English is a second language, so perhaps there should be some sympathy there?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'd normally agree but it would mean ruling out over half the applicants!
Isn't that a good thing? If you are looking for only one, the faster that you can easily rule out a lot of people, the better. Under what condition would you want to hire one of the ones in the bottom half?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Although for many of the applicants, English is a second language, so perhaps there should be some sympathy there?
Yes, there is some amount of potential leniency in that case. But only so much if the language is in English and communications is part of the job.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'd normally agree but it would mean ruling out over half the applicants!
Although for many of the applicants, English is a second language, so perhaps there should be some sympathy there?
If they know their English isn't strong, even more reason to get it reviewed by people who can help them. If they choose not to have it reviewed and then make the needed changes, then they are lazy and stupid. Maybe not their intellectual side, but their common sense side.
