Writing a Cover Letter
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
Most people don't care what the company actually does. They apply for the position
Fair enough. I'd never really thought of it that way. @scottalanmiller started a thread the other week asking what was the perfect company to work for, which got me thinking. I never thought that for most people the answer to his question was "I don't care".
I think everyone has a dream company to work for. I just dont think its in manufacturing for most IT people.
Mine is a fishing company which is probably even rarer than SMB manufacturing
-
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@thanksaj said:
You could put in the ad that you are looking for someone who wants to work both SMB and manufacturing, and I can almost guarantee that 19/20 candidates are applying simply because they feel they could do the job and don't really care what market it's in. Maybe some do prefer SMB to enterprise. But you're looking for something very specific, and it's far too easy to lie on a cover letter. I think we've all done it. "Why do you want to work for this company?" You can put any of 100 things there, and you have no way of knowing what's true and what's not.
Yes, but I was answering a specific point IRJ made that people can't be expected to be bothered writing a covering letter because there are so many IT jobs they can apply for. So my point is that my job is fairly unusual and so if it is the kind of thing that interests you, you might be happy to spend a few minutes writing a covering letter. The mere fact that they have bothered to write a covering letter at all might therefore indicate that they are genuinely interested in working for an SMB manufacturer. It's about sending the right signals.
I don't quite understand how is your position unique? The majority of SMB companies have the same metaphors, most are windows shops with a domain and workstations for office users, and POS or data entry machines for shop floor. Some have on-site ERP/MRP system, some don't.... unless you explain it in your job posting I don't see how anyone would assume your company is different then the 12 others advertising in the same way. I don't mean this as offensive just being realistic.
SMB is the same story no matter what. No money and management that doesnt understand IT
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
I don't quite understand how is your position unique?
I said above, I don't see many SMB IT jobs being advertised round here. We're not unique, but we're unusual. And by unusual I mean if you search on Monster right now, we will be the only job advertised in our area that isn't either working for an IT company or for a large enterprise.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying. Although it really isn't that unusual either, just rare in your area, if you were saying that the IT department managed an completely automated manufacturing floor then I would say that is unusual/unique. But really that is just semantics. SMBs are all almost identical in the technical metaphors (infrastructure) that are present.
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
Most people don't care what the company actually does. They apply for the position
Fair enough. I'd never really thought of it that way. @scottalanmiller started a thread the other week asking what was the perfect company to work for, which got me thinking. I never thought that for most people the answer to his question was "I don't care".
As a rule, people apply for the position because either they like the position or they like the company. People may not apply for a job if a company has a bad reputation, but look at Spiceworks. Do you really think the people in accounting care about the software and what it does for IT Pros? No. They care about the numbers and finances. People care about their job and the work environment. Rarely do people care about what the company actually does, at least in the business sector. You start talking non-profits and charities, it's a little different.
-
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
I think it would be a better post interview question. One asked as they are walking out that doesn't have an effect on hiring. I can tell you that they probably didn't submit one because your ad was one of 20-30 that they had applied to that week..
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
Thanks,
A.J. -
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
I think it would be a better post interview question. One asked as they are walking out that doesn't have an effect on hiring. I can tell you that they probably didn't submit one because your ad was one of 20-30 that they had applied to that week..
Exactly. If you really are hung up on requiring a cover letter, I would include in the ad who they should address it to, such as you, and give them a couple questions to answer as part of their letter. The other reason I hate cover letters is because I never know what the employer is looking for in a cover letter. If you give them questions to answer as part of a cover letter, you will get much stronger results.
-
@thanksaj said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
You don't have the make this clear during the interview process either, this is private criteria that they should meet by just "being themselves".... as much as I hate that saying.
-
@coliver said:
@thanksaj said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
No, because it's an awkward question. It puts them on the spot in a way that they will feel like they can't win no matter what they say. That's how I see it. What you need to do in this hunt for a new employee is establish values. What I mean by that is determine what's the most important thing for the applicant to have? Second most important? Third, and so on. If it came down to two candidates where one was less qualified technically but more eager about SMB and manufacturing vs a much stronger candidate technically but for whom they didn't care what the industry was, who would you choose? It sounds like you haven't really determined what criteria to measure by yet and that you almost might be using the cover letters to help you figure that out. Just an observation. Hope it all works out well for you!
You don't have the make this clear during the interview process either, this is private criteria that they should meet by just "being themselves".... as much as I hate that saying.
I agree. Something like motivation, for example. If you have to ask someone to tell you about their motivation, then they don't have it. When you see people who are motivated and driven, you can tell from their resume, by the way they talk, and not just what they talk about. Ask them to describe some projects they've done on their own and for work. Do they get excited when they talk? Do they talk about the little details? Indicators like this are way more meaningful to me than any direct answer to a direct question.
-
@coliver said:
I can tell you that they probably didn't submit one because your ad was one of 20-30 that they had applied to that week..
Pretty much
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, this has turned out to be a really interesting thread. I'll confess, I'm crap at recruiting. Dealing with human beings isn't my forte. So this has given me lots to think about. I still don't see why anyone would have an issue writing a covering letter but I'll try and be a bit more sympathetic to those that don't. Maybe asking them why they didn't would be a good interview question, what do you think?
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
-
I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
-
@IRJ said:
I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
As well as @Minion-Queen and @Katie
-
@coliver said:
@IRJ said:
I am still curious to hear what @scottalanmiller has to say
As well as @Minion-Queen and @Katie
Agreed.
-
Wow I don't have time to read the full thread right now but here is my first short answer:
A cover letter if requested should be there (I don't require one in general).
A cover letter gives you a chance to highlight what skills are going to be the most useful to me the prospective employer based on my job description. Because other wise I have to sift through the resume.
I will read this all more thoroughly later tonight when I actually have some time.
-
@Minion-Queen said:
Wow I don't have time to read the full thread right now but here is my first short answer:
A cover letter if requested should be there (I don't require one in general).
A cover letter gives you a chance to highlight what skills are going to be the most useful to me the prospective employer based on my job description. Because other wise I have to sift through the resume.
I will read this all more thoroughly later tonight when I actually have some time.
You mean you're busy?! NO WAY!
-
@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
-
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
No you aren't if they couldn't take the time to get someone to help them out if they are bad at spelling and grammar then do you really want them to work with you? And for the record I know I am horrible but no one has time to read my posts on here first
-
@Minion-Queen said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
You aren't crap at all. You are hiring for the position so its really your call. I personally don't submit cover letters on applications and I explained why I don't do it. The point I was trying to make was look at the resume and experience of a person. Don't be a knit picker about the small things.
I'm exaggerating a little, but my past recruitment hasn't been the most successful aspect of my career. I'm actually a reasonable manager (so I've been told) but I haven't been that great at choosing my own staff.
The position I'm recruiting for now is a pretty entry level position, so no-one really has any professional qualifications or much in the way of experience. It's all about potential. So how to judge?
Am I being a knit picker to moan about terrible spelling and grammar as well?
No you aren't if they couldn't take the time to get someone to help them out if they are bad at spelling and grammar then do you really want them to work with you? And for the record I know I am horrible but no one has time to read my posts on here first
Hey, I still proofread for you fairly frequently. Just not on little posts. It's only on the bigger stuff.
