Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@bnrstnr said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng.I would definitely not use XCP-ng without XO. I would probably use Hyper-V and Veeam otherwise.
I want to try KVM, but I don't have time to figure out the backup stuff right now. Maybe it's time I switch my home lab over to KVM.
Before all the changes with XenServer, I had no problem using XenServer with XenCenter for what I needed. I actually like how quick I got use to using it and the cli compare to my first experience with Hyper-V and KVM.
Backups are always hot-topic with hypervisors. I don't really have issue using Agentless or agent-based backups.
I think tossing backups into this conversation at all is a red herring to use Scott's term. It has nothing to do with the questions at hand. In the case of XCP-NG you need XO/XOA, in the case of KVM - you need???
KVM actually can do backups, even with rudimentary CBT, with only the built in command line tools. But it's a pain. But it is there.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
That is not what was asked or stated. You are adding.
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Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
That is not what was asked or stated. You are adding.
So yes - backups can be done - but it's a huge PITA using those native tools.
got it. -
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
Why would you guess that it would be bad?
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
It was never an issue as the backups were completed after the office had closed for the evening. But they took less than an hour to complete. Total.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
umm like how? Snap's don't do anything to the disk after the initial writes to create the new snap files. Then it is just read of the snap to the target. This is zero different than every hypervisor backup mechanism ever.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right above where it shows login
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
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Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
Well my KVM host only shows localhost on the console screen, but when I SSH into it, I see the names. which is weird.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.
Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.
Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.
OK it was braindead'ish easy to install and get to the console. Though - something a bit more in your face about the web console like XS would be nice.
As for what options to choose to get a KVM host - Scott's example above works fine, even from a Netinstall ISO - choose Fedora Server > Headless Virtualization (only selected option)
and you end up with something. I don't have time now to play with it, but I will tomorrow. -
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
We tend to, because it is part of setting up the static networking, which you often do with hypervisors. not always, of course, but it is common.
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Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan
I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums.
