StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
Having that done seems like part of the original purchase decision. It's just part of the cost of having chosen that software. So it seems like someone thought it was affordable when they decided on it initially. Or felt that it was so needed or cheap that any further thought was unnecessary - same difference.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
For large enough solutions, yea. At an old job I had to use a tool for the JobBOSS software they ran to open an old database to get some info.
Wasn't overly difficult, but it was built for that database. A generic tool may not work, besides just exporting a database use MS SQL.
SQL Server includes built in tools for extraction.
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Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
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@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
Depends on the database. But it's something we do from time to time and often is pretty basic. I mean days of work, yes. But maintaining all that stuff is also days of work, plus the cost of hardware, isolation, risk, etc. On top of maintaining all that old stuff, we assume that there is no support should something break, either.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
I mean days of work, yes.
Not even close.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
Having that done seems like part of the original purchase decision. It's just part of the cost of having chosen that software. So it seems like someone thought it was affordable when they decided on it initially. Or felt that it was so needed or cheap that any further thought was unnecessary - same difference.
I know you likely consider every single possibility when you buy something, but alas most do not. When this EHR was picked - it was never considered - what if this company folds up and blows away - what will it cost to export our data? Should they - of course they should, but do they, yeah no.
so in the end they just end up complaining about it, and dealing with it when the time arises. -
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
well - one answer would be - to maintain a virtual system until the data is no longer needed. So you ask - what will that take?
It will take a server running a VM platform that will support Windows 2012R2 and Windows 7 until 2036, or exporting the data into a usable situation.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
SQL Server Management Studio allows you do do things.
Exporting a database is not one of them.
You can backup a database. That does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can Generate Scripts and include the data. This again, does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can use SQL Server Integration Services to create an export package, table by table. This again does you no good, as the data is still locked into the various tables it was in.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
Depends on the database. But it's something we do from time to time and often is pretty basic. I mean days of work, yes. But maintaining all that stuff is also days of work, plus the cost of hardware, isolation, risk, etc. On top of maintaining all that old stuff, we assume that there is no support should something break, either.
The system is basically in a static state. So if it breaks - restore to a known good working state and move on.
The problem I see running into over time is hardware and hypervisor tech that can support this until the kill date of 2036.
we can manually use the built system to do what is called a CCD export of the children's files - while this will be extremely manual in nature, it will likely be less expensive than hiring NTG or whomever to learn the DB layouts and extract the desired data.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
That's useless! I have direct DB access. I can go pawing through the data right now. But what I need is reports from that data - patient records made from that data, etc. so simply having the data is pointless.
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@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
SQL Server Management Studio allows you do do things.
Exporting a database is not one of them.
You can backup a database. That does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can Generate Scripts and include the data. This again, does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can use SQL Server Integration Services to create an export package, table by table. This again does you no good, as the data is still locked into the various tables it was in.
Exactly. What I need is - patient calls up and says - I want copies of my medical records. we have to generate those medical records from the DB - which the app does for us today. But the app won't run on Windows 10, so we are stuck with windows 7. I might be able to get lucky and actually move the server side to Windows server 2019 with SQL 2019, but the browser calls are locked into IE.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
Well sure, if you just want a straight dump. That's good for backing up or preparing for the next step, but it itself isn't an answer alone. Just a piece of the puzzle.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
Having that done seems like part of the original purchase decision. It's just part of the cost of having chosen that software. So it seems like someone thought it was affordable when they decided on it initially. Or felt that it was so needed or cheap that any further thought was unnecessary - same difference.
I know you likely consider every single possibility when you buy something, but alas most do not. When this EHR was picked - it was never considered - what if this company folds up and blows away - what will it cost to export our data? Should they - of course they should, but do they, yeah no.
so in the end they just end up complaining about it, and dealing with it when the time arises.Still part of the decision whether admitted or not.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
Depends on the database. But it's something we do from time to time and often is pretty basic. I mean days of work, yes. But maintaining all that stuff is also days of work, plus the cost of hardware, isolation, risk, etc. On top of maintaining all that old stuff, we assume that there is no support should something break, either.
The system is basically in a static state. So if it breaks - restore to a known good working state and move on.
The problem I see running into over time is hardware and hypervisor tech that can support this until the kill date of 2036.
we can manually use the built system to do what is called a CCD export of the children's files - while this will be extremely manual in nature, it will likely be less expensive than hiring NTG or whomever to learn the DB layouts and extract the desired data.
Maybe, personally I think this seems very unlikely given 2036. That's 18 more years of dealing with stuff already in a ridiculous state today. Remember that you are going to be dealing with people that are not you and have no memory or knowledge of this system decades from now, a system already insanely old, trying to do restores or run systems 30 years old.
I doubt that that stuff will be cheap at that point, or anytime between now and then. A one time conversion to text files or PDF is over and done. Yeah, it's a bigger up front cost, but it is a single cost that never comes back to haunt you.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
That's useless! I have direct DB access. I can go pawing through the data right now. But what I need is reports from that data - patient records made from that data, etc. so simply having the data is pointless.
Not exactly pointless, just not enough on its own.
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It'd be helpful to know what EHR it is, there may already be queries out there to do things like get the right associated data. It's not that complex. With the right information it could be fairly quick, but without any information it may require doing things like logging the queries and looking up patients to see how the information is joined and/or what different tables are queried. Even doing this near-black-box you can gain a lot of information, you don't need to necessarily just reverse engineer the entire schema if you can see how it's being used. I've done this plenty of times with MS SQL Server and EHRs and ERMs who have no APIs or documentation.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
SQL Server Management Studio allows you do do things.
Exporting a database is not one of them.
You can backup a database. That does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can Generate Scripts and include the data. This again, does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can use SQL Server Integration Services to create an export package, table by table. This again does you no good, as the data is still locked into the various tables it was in.
Exactly. What I need is - patient calls up and says - I want copies of my medical records. we have to generate those medical records from the DB - which the app does for us today. But the app won't run on Windows 10, so we are stuck with windows 7. I might be able to get lucky and actually move the server side to Windows server 2019 with SQL 2019, but the browser calls are locked into IE.
My thought is if this was to be done, you'd make a "patient to document" script, list the patients, run it and create one document per patient that can be stored in any filesystem in read only mode. Hard? Maybe. But that's the basic idea. Get to a "minimum common denominator" that you can just print out and be done with.
