Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- There are a LOT of industries where you don't have to know how to BUILD xxx to identify people who are good at it.
- Real Estate agents and Building Inspectors don't know every facet of building a building.
- Venture Capital (Don't know how to run every facet of a company but they know how to assemble a team).
Yes, BUT...
- IT isn't one of those, at all. It's about as opposite of that as you can get.
- Real Estate agents need tons of knowledge, training, and certification around those things before doing their jobs.
- VCs know about their business. That's not like recruiting.
- Agree to disagree...
- I could become a real estate agent in a week. Let's not pretend the test is hard.
- VC and Angel investors best value isn't the cash they bring to the founders, it's the people they bring to fill in the gaps. The relationships and talent. Do you need a head of sales or HR or marketing for the next billion dollars unicorn? As a founder, I"m going to talk to my VC. At the carnival level of this, you see this on SharkTank where you see someone pick Cuban on what is on paper a worse offer because they think he has the right connections to get them where they need to go.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
If the learned enough technology they would stop being a recruiter and get paid more doing Technology (I know one recruiter who did this).
That's why they don't learn the tech, but learning enough tech to be able to do the job seems like a logical level.
Plus I know recruiters who make way more than normal IT. But those know the tech, too.You know what we call someone who knows enough IT, has good organizational and communication skills. An IT manager (or possibly a Project Manager). While it's true the high end (headhunters) can make bank, the majority of having this overlap I assume would leave before they get there.
-
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
I talk to a lot of people about changing jobs (My company pays decent money for referrals!) and I see more than I expected of the following...
-
I don't want to travel for work.
-
I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
-
I'm unwilling to spend any time/money on acquiring any skills that would increase my value to employers above its current one.
-
I'm strangely loyal to a company that doesn't pay me enough.
Currently survey's show a LOWER demand for moving than at previous times, so labor that is willing to move can get paid a lot better than before.
-
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
-
@travisdh1 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
The fun game is there ARE jobs listed in Silicon Valley that "for the right candidate they would take remote". That's how I found mine. They generally don't mention the last part.
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@travisdh1 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
The fun game is there ARE jobs listed in Silicon Valley that "for the right candidate they would take remote". That's how I found mine. They generally don't mention the last part.
Nearly any good company will offer remote for the right candidate. It would be a hella reckless company that didn't.
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- I could become a real estate agent in a week. Let's not pretend the test is hard.
A week of study is WAY more than you get in IT recruiting most of the time. WAY more. And you can't in Texas, I've looked into it. They do things to make sure that it takes a while. And you have to work under a broker for years, so you are under someone with way more training at all times.
My wife was a real estate agent and my roommate is, and it's a lot more work that it seems. Nothing like it takes to work in IT, but also nothing like as little as it takes to be a recruiter.
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- VC and Angel investors best value isn't the cash they bring to the founders, it's the people they bring to fill in the gaps. The relationships and talent. Do you need a head of sales or HR or marketing for the next billion dollars unicorn? As a founder, I"m going to talk to my VC. At the carnival level of this, you see this on SharkTank where you see someone pick Cuban on what is on paper a worse offer because they think he has the right connections to get them where they need to go.
Exactly, and they have to know their business and their people to do that stuff. In theory, recruiters should be similar - their value is bringing the right people to the right tables. But they rarely do.
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
If the learned enough technology they would stop being a recruiter and get paid more doing Technology (I know one recruiter who did this).
That's why they don't learn the tech, but learning enough tech to be able to do the job seems like a logical level.
Plus I know recruiters who make way more than normal IT. But those know the tech, too.You know what we call someone who knows enough IT, has good organizational and communication skills. An IT manager (or possibly a Project Manager).
Yes, they become "buyers" of IT, the people who use recruiters to get them the actual IT people.
-
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
I talk to a lot of people about changing jobs (My company pays decent money for referrals!) and I see more than I expected of the following...
-
I don't want to travel for work.
-
I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
-
I'm unwilling to spend any time/money on acquiring any skills that would increase my value to employers above its current one.
-
I'm strangely loyal to a company that doesn't pay me enough.
Currently survey's show a LOWER demand for moving than at previous times, so labor that is willing to move can get paid a lot better than before.
Willingness to move is one of the top factors in job mobility.
-
-
There's too much discussion and analysis of recruiters and job postings here. It would be like a naturopath practitioner trying to find clients on a forum dedicated to debunking homeopathy. Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
-
This post is deleted! -
@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy, but I imagine plenty of recruiters are just as full of crap as someone selling
nothing but pure water maybe with lavender in ithomeopathic "medicine", and do just as much research. Many years ago I had signed up with some service that was a placement service and a recruiter, and I told them repeatedly I did not know or want to know how to write programs in Pascal, yet they repeatedly called and told me they had a new job for me... in Pascal, COBOL, Assembly. I was never offered a job in any language I knew/was proficient in except once and when I interviewed they told me that they just "claimed [they] were looking for C++ programmers so that more people would show up for [their] PL/I interviews." That stupid company was AOL and they hired me anyway.Maybe that logic extends to recruiters, they think if they just place someone who is expert in... Juniper or whatever in a Cisco oriented job then it'll magically work out, they don't know how ugly pine trees can possibly be used for networks anyway.*
*Because they don't realise Juniper is a networking company not plant
-
@tonyshowoff said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy,
Prescription drugs are so much more profitable. A good percentage of them create side effects worse than what they are treating.
Not to mention that doctors get kick backs from drug companies like conferences that are 1 week where only a day or two is an actual conference. The rest of the week is the family staying at the resort.
It's easy to make fun of homeopathy, because we are trained to think we are so much smarter by using prescription drugs that create terrible side effects that are rarely just physical. They are many times mental as well. It just crates a never ending use another drug to treat this side effect.
I know prescription drugs help people who are very sick and offer help that natural meds can't. However, most illness isn't life threatening and can be handled other ways like diet. It's the people who run to the doctor for minor things who like get the terrible side effects.
-
@tonyshowoff The key to is that a naturopath can base their practice off of science or off of quackery. Homeopathy is quackery, and people on the lookout for BS would only trust a naturopath that can prove they are not full of it.
-
@IRJ said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@tonyshowoff said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy,
Prescription drugs are so much more profitable. A good percentage of them create side effects worse than what they are treating.
Not to mention that doctors get kick backs from drug companies like conferences that are 1 week where only a day or two is an actual conference. The rest of the week is the family staying at the resort.
It's easy to make fun of homeopathy, because we are trained to think we are so much smarter by using prescription drugs that create terrible side effects that are rarely just physical. They are many times mental as well. It just crates a never ending use another drug to treat this side effect.
I know prescription drugs help people who are very sick and offer help that natural meds can't. However, most illness isn't life threatening and can be handled other ways like diet. It's the people who run to the doctor for minor things who like get the terrible side effects.
Homeopathy isn't even natural medicine though, it's literally just water. The idea that:
- "Like cures like" which is the indirect origin of the word homeopathy, which itself is Greek for "like-suffering", either of which concept are both ridiculous. You can't cure burns with bleach, but you can in homeopathy so long as you follow #2.
- That the more diluted something is, the more powerful it is. That's what those 10x, 13x, etc on homeopathy labels mean, those are levels of dilution, and the process it's done by is even more close to magic than I think most people realise, because...
- The way you dilute it is by putting your "like" chemical or typically flower or plant into water in a vial, then you bang it on a wooden plank a certain number of times, then you take a drop of that, put it into another vial, and then bang that, and you repeat the process until the dilution is so high that there's less than typically a single molecule of the original chemical/mineral/etc left.
- The more diluted, how many Xs there are, is related to its power. So 13 times dilution is more powerful than 10 times dilution.
I'm willing to believe that there are natural cures from plants and other things, and certainly this must be true, but I can't possibly believe that the more you dilute something the more powerful it is. That's not just pseudoscience, that's stupidity, you don't make coffee or tea more caffeinated by making it 99.999% milk.... unless you bang it on wood first of course.
I don't think most followers of homeopathy are stupid themselves though because they don't know the process and if they did far less people would believe in it, but many who do still believe in it do so because they believe in "water memory" and other nonsense like "water can take the form of other chemicals and your body read them like data off a hard drive"... which makes me wonder why that's superior to the original chemical/mineral in the first place.
Our bodies are actually pretty good at healing themselves, sometimes in surprising and amazing ways that even surprise doctors, but the problem is that when people take or use homeopathic medicine they attribute just the inevitable healing done by their own bodies to homeopathy.
-
A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
-
@dyasny While I would generally agree with needing a 1:1, that is why PM's exist.
A recruiting company could post their positions on the forum.
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
