Why is the Third World Running Windows?
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@dashrender said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@jmoore said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@coliver Ahh ok my mistake then. I saw them offer servers on their marketplace so was going by that.
Lenovo and IBM are completely separate and compete in a lot of spaces. IBM makes no consumer gear, and no end user gear. But Lenovo makes tons of servers. So they overlap a lot.
Do they? I thought IBM sold their intel server business to lenovo?
Right, and that already overlapped internally at IBM. So taking an internal overlap and making it an external overlap doesn't change that there is an overlap.
And it was their AMD business, IBM never did Intel since AMD64 came out. Only HPE does that.
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@dashrender said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@coliver said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@dashrender said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@jmoore said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@coliver Ahh ok my mistake then. I saw them offer servers on their marketplace so was going by that.
Lenovo and IBM are completely separate and compete in a lot of spaces. IBM makes no consumer gear, and no end user gear. But Lenovo makes tons of servers. So they overlap a lot.
Do they? I thought IBM sold their intel server business to lenovo?
They did in 2014. They are definitely separate companies just that Lenovo now owns the "Intel" server lines that IBM used to have.
Right - so where's the competition?
In the server overlap. They compete for server customers.
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@kelly said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@kelly said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
. The largest reason for this is because the articles out there on the internet are focused on a Windows majority. If I do a search for best "whatever" without adding Linux to my search (which most users would not know to do) I'll get Windows options mostly with a sprinkling of MacOS.
Totally true, except that application acquisition isn't a normal thing in third world markets. That's a very first world approach to computing today. We think of using the computer as a platform for acquiring new apps. But Chromebooks have shown that that's not needed most of the time, no apps available at all. In the 3rd world, essentially no one is out getting video games, looking for specialty apps, etc. And if they are, they are stumped because they don't control their Windows version and patches, so have MORE issues getting things working on Windows than on Linux because updates and versioning is so problematic.
Windows seems reasonable from an American context, because we are used to controlling versions. Once you can't do that and you are forced to use "whatever you have", getting working Windows apps is quite hard.
Where are you drawing your sources from that third world countries don't use computers for applications and games? Here is some data on video game sales in Africa: https://www.statista.com/statistics/699112/video-games-revenue-africa-countries/. This doesn't separate out mobile and console gaming from PC, but given the volume of the spend I think it would be a mistake to assume that it precludes PC gaming.
Mobile > Console > PC in most of that kind of market. Keep in mind that most of the big numbers there are not third world. Kenya is, for sure, but the revenue is small.
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@dashrender said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
I'll give Scot the fact that much of the developing countries need universal apps - i.e. web browsers - but I'd say it's more cellphone based (and I'm not talking smart phones). Hell, apparently they do a HUGE amount of banking through SMS - that just seems crazy!
This is true specifically in African third world countries, Kenya is the hallmark for this. I've actually consulted on this to governments in Africa. Outside of Africa, banking is less SMS based, as in non-African third world, smart phones are pretty prevalent. The SMS phenomenon is pretty heavily east African based. But certainly very interesting.
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@pete-s said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@kelly said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
. The largest reason for this is because the articles out there on the internet are focused on a Windows majority. If I do a search for best "whatever" without adding Linux to my search (which most users would not know to do) I'll get Windows options mostly with a sprinkling of MacOS.
Totally true, except that application acquisition isn't a normal thing in third world markets. That's a very first world approach to computing today. We think of using the computer as a platform for acquiring new apps. But Chromebooks have shown that that's not needed most of the time, no apps available at all. In the 3rd world, essentially no one is out getting video games, looking for specialty apps, etc. And if they are, they are stumped because they don't control their Windows version and patches, so have MORE issues getting things working on Windows than on Linux because updates and versioning is so problematic.
Windows seems reasonable from an American context, because we are used to controlling versions. Once you can't do that and you are forced to use "whatever you have", getting working Windows apps is quite hard.
Aren't they just running pirate versions of everything, just like China?
I mean third world doesn't mean that everyone is living in huts and making their living collecting fruits and weaving baskets.
I assume they are running software like Autocad, SolidWorks, Illustrator, Indesign etc. That's why a real operating system is needed. Can't do much engineering work without it and a lot of the third world is a lot about building up the country - basically going through the industrial revolution.
Not often, no. Someone, somewhere is, yes. But if you are doing AutoCAD, likely you are working IN the third world for a first or second world country. Lots of engineering in the third world is done elsewhere, actually. If you live in Nicaragua and want an architect, you go to places like Mexico or Japan, not down the street.
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I am from Croatia, and would like to dump Windows and move to Linux. But situation here is like this:
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My company use WIndows because our bookkeeping app does not run on Linux (also does not run reliably with WIne). We also have cash-desk app for our 21 retail stores that also works on Windows only :-((
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MS Excel is important in our daily work. We have some in-house Excel VBA macros that automate some important tasks. So, on most PCs we have LibreOffice, but we still need MS Excel on some PCs because of VBA macros. I personally wrote those macros, but I have not found time to learn macro programming with LibreOffice Calc to fully leave MS Excel. And for MS Office we need MS WIndows :-((
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Microsoft's software is in our schools and I hate that. My daughter is in 5th grade (11 years old) and they get tasks to prepare presentaions in PowerPoint :-((
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For private use, most people use pirated WIndows and MS Office (or OEM WIndows preinstalled). So they do not care about price.
This way everyone is used to WIndows OS, no matter how basic their needs are.
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@mario-jakovina said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
I am from Croatia, and would like to dump Windows and move to Linux. But situation here is like this:
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My company use WIndows because our bookkeeping app does not run on Linux (also does not run reliably with WIne). We also have cash-desk app for our 21 retail stores that also works on Windows only :-((
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MS Excel is important in our daily work. We have some in-house Excel VBA macros that automate some important tasks. So, on most PCs we have LibreOffice, but we still need MS Excel on some PCs because of VBA macros. I personally wrote those macros, but I have not found time to learn macro programming with LibreOffice Calc to fully leave MS Excel. And for MS Office we need MS WIndows :-((
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Microsoft's software is in our schools and I hate that. My daughter is in 5th grade (11 years old) and they get tasks to prepare presentaions in PowerPoint :-((
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For private use, most people use pirated WIndows and MS Office (or OEM WIndows preinstalled). So they do not care about price.
This way everyone is used to WIndows OS, no matter how basic their needs are.
I agree Microsoft office is much better than Libre office if you do advance tasks. I use office online daily
from my Fedora PC, and it has full functionality. -
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@mario-jakovina said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
I am from Croatia, and would like to dump Windows and move to Linux. But situation here is like this:
-
My company use WIndows because our bookkeeping app does not run on Linux (also does not run reliably with WIne). We also have cash-desk app for our 21 retail stores that also works on Windows only :-((
-
MS Excel is important in our daily work. We have some in-house Excel VBA macros that automate some important tasks. So, on most PCs we have LibreOffice, but we still need MS Excel on some PCs because of VBA macros. I personally wrote those macros, but I have not found time to learn macro programming with LibreOffice Calc to fully leave MS Excel. And for MS Office we need MS WIndows :-((
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Microsoft's software is in our schools and I hate that. My daughter is in 5th grade (11 years old) and they get tasks to prepare presentaions in PowerPoint :-((
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For private use, most people use pirated WIndows and MS Office (or OEM WIndows preinstalled). So they do not care about price.
This way everyone is used to WIndows OS, no matter how basic their needs are.
I usually have my Windows 10 VM turned off but I have to keep running because a Macro enabled excel document. There might be an opportunity to use SnipeIT to manage laptops from a accountant point of view.
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To be honest in the Dominican Republic for Example, they run Microsoft because that's what they have been trying to copy from the US a lot. But the majority of bank systems, big companies are running in Linux Servers but Windows Desktops. That being said, there is also no a lot of enforcement of Microsoft Licensing which can be tricky as well.
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Perhaps another reason would be that many third-world countries provide tech support for Windows-heavy countries, therefore are forced into using the same systems either because they have to, or because that's what they are forced to get used to.
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@obsolesce said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Perhaps another reason would be that many third-world countries provide tech support for Windows-heavy countries, therefore are forced into using the same systems either because they have to, or because that's what they are forced to get used to.
This is likely true for many, or several. But for most of the third world, exporting IT is not a thing.
Example... no third world North American country is an IT exporter, they are IT importers. Central America, even Panama, imports IT from Colombia and Mexico, rather than doing it themselves, let alone exporting it to the first world.
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@dbeato said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
To be honest in the Dominican Republic for Example, they run Microsoft because that's what they have been trying to copy from the US a lot. But the majority of bank systems, big companies are running in Linux Servers but Windows Desktops. That being said, there is also no a lot of enforcement of Microsoft Licensing which can be tricky as well.
Yeah, the feeling that they get it for "free" when it's costly here makes people think "well, if Americans PAY for it, and we get it for free, it MUST be a good deal." Ugh.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@dbeato said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
To be honest in the Dominican Republic for Example, they run Microsoft because that's what they have been trying to copy from the US a lot. But the majority of bank systems, big companies are running in Linux Servers but Windows Desktops. That being said, there is also no a lot of enforcement of Microsoft Licensing which can be tricky as well.
Yeah, the feeling that they get it for "free" when it's costly here makes people think "well, if Americans PAY for it, and we get it for free, it MUST be a good deal." Ugh.
Which bothers me a lot...
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@dbeato said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@dbeato said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
To be honest in the Dominican Republic for Example, they run Microsoft because that's what they have been trying to copy from the US a lot. But the majority of bank systems, big companies are running in Linux Servers but Windows Desktops. That being said, there is also no a lot of enforcement of Microsoft Licensing which can be tricky as well.
Yeah, the feeling that they get it for "free" when it's costly here makes people think "well, if Americans PAY for it, and we get it for free, it MUST be a good deal." Ugh.
Which bothers me a lot...
Yeah, not good logic in the US, not good logic elsewhere. Too much "high cost equals value" along with too much "Americans must know what they are doing."
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Yeah, the feeling that they get it for "free" when it's costly here makes people think "well, if Americans PAY for it, and we get it for free, it MUST be a good deal." Ugh.
Slightly different: "If it's legaly free, it's probably not that good"
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@mario-jakovina said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Yeah, the feeling that they get it for "free" when it's costly here makes people think "well, if Americans PAY for it, and we get it for free, it MUST be a good deal." Ugh.
Slightly different: "If it's legaly free, it's probably not that good"
That's EVER WORSE. Of all three logical mistakes, that one is far worse than the other too.
That's like saying that sex with someone you love has to be worse than even the cheapest prostitute.
Not that there aren't nice prostitutes, but you know, on average....
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Not that there aren't nice prostitutes
I can't imagine anyone choosing that "career" path being nice in anything.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Personally I feel that Linux on ARM, which can easily include Chromebook devices, is the ideal for most of the third world. Low cost to acquire, low cost to maintain, free to keep updated forever, high longevity of devices, low cost to operate, low impact on the environment and the power infrastructure.
Haswell i5 or Boadcom Intel NUC draws 9 watts watching youtube. x86 isn't all Xeon power sucking beasts.
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@mario-jakovina said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
Slightly different: "If it's legaly free, it's probably not that good"
Microsoft gave away Windows 10 in China. In other countries, the OEM price they charge for embedded is a pack of cigarettes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is the Third World Running Windows?:
This is likely true for many, or several. But for most of the third world, exporting IT is not a thing.
Example... no third world North American country is an IT exporter, they are IT importers. Central America, even Panama, imports IT from Colombia and Mexico, rather than doing it themselves, let alone exporting it to the first world.Costa Rica exports IT services. Services are a huge part of their economy (We run back office, and some GSS operations there).
