Compare ClearOS with Zentyal
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@Dashrender said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
I just wish I had a complete training book that isn't esoteric or so specific to a particular distro that it misses a lot of basics. I need training that makes things make sense.
I don't want to study Linux only to find out when I try to take the knowledge to my CentOS web servers that half of it doesn't apply!Scott and I were recently talking about this. One thing I walked away with was that even though there is a lot of overly, each distro is a completely different OS. There is not, should not be any expectation that what works in on should work in another (even though more often than not it does).
Sadly we are not talking about the differences between Windows XP and Windows 7, we're talking about the difference between Windows XP and Mac OS.
I hate the use of the term Linux - oh it's just Linux, learn that and you're golden - BullShit! Linux is just a kernel, and is near worthless on it's own. The world needs to drop that phrasing and say - Oh learn Cent OS or learn Ubuntu. They are different, very different. I think if we divorce Linux from the conversation, the understanding that these OSs are different animals.. then much of the confusion will fall away.
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
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@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@Dashrender said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
I just wish I had a complete training book that isn't esoteric or so specific to a particular distro that it misses a lot of basics. I need training that makes things make sense.
I don't want to study Linux only to find out when I try to take the knowledge to my CentOS web servers that half of it doesn't apply!Scott and I were recently talking about this. One thing I walked away with was that even though there is a lot of overly, each distro is a completely different OS. There is not, should not be any expectation that what works in on should work in another (even though more often than not it does).
Sadly we are not talking about the differences between Windows XP and Windows 7, we're talking about the difference between Windows XP and Mac OS.
I hate the use of the term Linux - oh it's just Linux, learn that and you're golden - BullShit! Linux is just a kernel, and is near worthless on it's own. The world needs to drop that phrasing and say - Oh learn Cent OS or learn Ubuntu. They are different, very different. I think if we divorce Linux from the conversation, the understanding that these OSs are different animals.. then much of the confusion will fall away.
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
it's like yum vs apt-get. Really? we needed two ways to do this? One wasn't good enough?
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@Dashrender said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@Dashrender said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
I just wish I had a complete training book that isn't esoteric or so specific to a particular distro that it misses a lot of basics. I need training that makes things make sense.
I don't want to study Linux only to find out when I try to take the knowledge to my CentOS web servers that half of it doesn't apply!Scott and I were recently talking about this. One thing I walked away with was that even though there is a lot of overly, each distro is a completely different OS. There is not, should not be any expectation that what works in on should work in another (even though more often than not it does).
Sadly we are not talking about the differences between Windows XP and Windows 7, we're talking about the difference between Windows XP and Mac OS.
I hate the use of the term Linux - oh it's just Linux, learn that and you're golden - BullShit! Linux is just a kernel, and is near worthless on it's own. The world needs to drop that phrasing and say - Oh learn Cent OS or learn Ubuntu. They are different, very different. I think if we divorce Linux from the conversation, the understanding that these OSs are different animals.. then much of the confusion will fall away.
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
it's like yum vs apt-get. Really? we needed two ways to do this? One wasn't good enough?
It's package management they may be somewhat different but the metaphors are basically identical.
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@Dashrender said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
I just wish I had a complete training book that isn't esoteric or so specific to a particular distro that it misses a lot of basics. I need training that makes things make sense.
I don't want to study Linux only to find out when I try to take the knowledge to my CentOS web servers that half of it doesn't apply!Scott and I were recently talking about this. One thing I walked away with was that even though there is a lot of overly, each distro is a completely different OS. There is not, should not be any expectation that what works in on should work in another (even though more often than not it does).
Sadly we are not talking about the differences between Windows XP and Windows 7, we're talking about the difference between Windows XP and Mac OS.
I hate the use of the term Linux - oh it's just Linux, learn that and you're golden - BullShit! Linux is just a kernel, and is near worthless on it's own. The world needs to drop that phrasing and say - Oh learn Cent OS or learn Ubuntu. They are different, very different. I think if we divorce Linux from the conversation, the understanding that these OSs are different animals.. then much of the confusion will fall away.
I think what gets people with this is Bash. Bash is pretty much the same across platforms, but Bash isn't Linux.
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@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
They certainly CAN be wildly different.
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@johnhooks said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
I think what gets people with this is Bash. Bash is pretty much the same across platforms, but Bash isn't Linux.
And not all Linux uses it!
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@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
They certainly CAN be wildly different.
Sure, they can be. Generally how you manage them isn't significantly different though. The file structure can be slightly different and some of the built in management tools are slightly different. Maybe I haven't dug into them enough to notice any extreme difference though.
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@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@coliver said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
Are they really that different? Kind of but the general basics and metaphors are almost identical.
They certainly CAN be wildly different.
Sure, they can be. Generally how you manage them isn't significantly different though. The file structure can be slightly different and some of the built in management tools are slightly different. Maybe I haven't dug into them enough to notice any extreme difference though.
The real question becomes... what's the same?
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And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
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@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
What overwrites find? What OS were you on? I've never seen that. It does not appear to be happening on my systems.
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@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
What overwrites find? What OS were you on? I've never seen that. It does not appear to be happening on my systems.
I was reading a how-to for doing some advanced file-finding. It was either the find command or some other one. It said that their was a simplified alias version (built in to Bash?) that didn't have the advanced switches I needed, so they said to always reference the usr/bin version directly when using it.
Wish I could find it for you.
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@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
What overwrites find? What OS were you on? I've never seen that. It does not appear to be happening on my systems.
I was reading a how-to for doing some advanced file-finding. It was either the find command or some other one. It said that their was a simplified alias version (built in to Bash?) that didn't have the advanced switches I needed, so they said to always reference the usr/bin version directly when using it.
Wish I could find it for you.
Seems odd. I've never encountered that. If you find it again, let me know.
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I will say however, that I think it's faster to initially build a VM with the GUI (like Virt-Manager). It's arguably easier to copy the VM through the GUI vs copying the XML file. I can script copying the XML, not script the GUI portion.
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@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
It sounds like you're assuming that you can't use options other than what are in the alias, but you can still use all command line options when something has an alias, doesn't matter.
Wikipedia Alias Page Aliases were meant to simplify usage.
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@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:
And so many things feel so arbitrary.
The other day I think I was using the find command or something, and found out that there is an alias "simplified" version of the command that overwrites the "real" one. So it goes, if you want the ability to use all the command options, you have to specifically reference the executable location like
/usr/bin/findbecause this gives full options and the useless simplified secret alias version doesn't have all the options.I hate little "gotchas" like this. So arbitrary, so useless and "undocumented".
What overwrites find? What OS were you on? I've never seen that. It does not appear to be happening on my systems.
I was reading a how-to for doing some advanced file-finding. It was either the find command or some other one. It said that their was a simplified alias version (built in to Bash?) that didn't have the advanced switches I needed, so they said to always reference the usr/bin version directly when using it.
Wish I could find it for you.
If you do find it, be sure to throw it away, uck.
