BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan
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@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Additionally, BB requires that any applications that are generating the files are often required to be closed before the file is eligible for upload. Prefer to leave your apps open, lock your computer, and go home for the weekend? No backup is taking place.
That's pretty standard. Is CrashPlan backing up open files? If so, how does it keep from corrupting them?
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@Nic said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
I use BackBlaze at home and I'm not too concerned about the delay. This backup is for catastrophic failure, not to protect me against accidental file deletion or the computer crashing while I'm in the middle of writing my term paper. If I wanted that level of protection I'd use a local Time Machine backup or something equivalent, with BackBlaze as the final step in my backup process.
Yeah, that is the job of versioning, not backup.
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@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
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@scottalanmiller said
That's pretty standard. Is CrashPlan backing up open files? If so, how does it keep from corrupting them?
It uses VSS.
Though they recommend against certain data that does not like being backed up that way, or will cause inconsistent data, such as Exchange, SQL, and Quickbooks.
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@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up.
This applies to all backups. Enterprise, hosted, scripted... everything. Anything that looks at files. You need something grabbing the underlying block device, like Veeam, to get around this. I don't know anyone that does that and doing so causes data corruption of the backups, so we normally don't want that behaviour.
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@BRRABill said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said
That's pretty standard. Is CrashPlan backing up open files? If so, how does it keep from corrupting them?
It uses VSS.
Then it doesn't get around the problem. It's exactly as I described, the "non-reliable" method of taking a block snap without verifying integrity... not a serious backup mechanism. You need the apps to be shut down for the backups to be reliable.
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CrashPlan doesn't allow for custom naming of backups... You can just click on the options and they switch to "overwrite/rename" and "to Desktop/to Folder (desktop)" etc. After you click on restore you're not given the option to name it... so effectively "rename" can be the same thing as "overwrite" if the names are the same. So if you have a folder called Test with a bunch of sub folders, then delete it and create a new folder called test and start adding stuff to it, then do a restore with "rename" as the option, it will remove Test and add the old folder called Test in its place.
Very unlikely I would see that scenario, I'm just looking at all the pitfalls.
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@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
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@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
Let's see if @aaron can shed some light on it. That BB just sits idle for eight hours waiting for your data to get old before uploading it seems crazy. Why would they have done that? I can't think of a reason why it would be good for them and it certainly is not good for you. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems fishy. And if I kick off a backup, it backs things up right away. Just try installing a fresh OS and kick off a backup, it does stuff.
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@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
Let's see if @aaron can shed some light on it. That BB just sits idle for eight hours waiting for your data to get old before uploading it seems crazy. Why would they have done that? I can't think of a reason why it would be good for them and it certainly is not good for you. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems fishy. And if I kick off a backup, it backs things up right away. Just try installing a fresh OS and kick off a backup, it does stuff.
It's good for them, potentially, because it could save them bandwidth.
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Only found one shortfall with CrashPlan so far...
Sales is awesome with a follow up. I downloaded it and they reached out an hour later seeing if everything is going well. I told them that if you choose "rename" instead of "overwrite", it still overwrites the more recent version. Unlikely scenario I used to test:
*Create a document called Test 1. In that doc it says "old document test 1."
*Do a backup and delete the file.
*Create a new document called Test 1. in that doc it says "new document test 2."
*Restore the original. Point it at the same location but choose "rename".You don't have the option of naming the new backup, so you can do a side-by-side comparison of the restored document and the new one you created. It just overwrites the new file. This is an unlikely scenario where someone would delete the old file, create a new one, and name it the same. I'm just pointing out how renaming still overwrites the new file instead of creating a file named something like Test 1(1), like when you download two of the same files from the internet.
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@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
Let's see if @aaron can shed some light on it. That BB just sits idle for eight hours waiting for your data to get old before uploading it seems crazy. Why would they have done that? I can't think of a reason why it would be good for them and it certainly is not good for you. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems fishy. And if I kick off a backup, it backs things up right away. Just try installing a fresh OS and kick off a backup, it does stuff.
It's good for them, potentially, because it could save them bandwidth.
I'm guessing that's why they do that. Saves bandwidth, but at a high cost to the company paying for the service, if a PC goes down and the upload hasn't run yet. Pretty disappointing. Hoping @aaron might be able to explain cause BB chat (Ryan) was super clear on the matter.
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@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
Let's see if @aaron can shed some light on it. That BB just sits idle for eight hours waiting for your data to get old before uploading it seems crazy. Why would they have done that? I can't think of a reason why it would be good for them and it certainly is not good for you. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems fishy. And if I kick off a backup, it backs things up right away. Just try installing a fresh OS and kick off a backup, it does stuff.
It's good for them, potentially, because it could save them bandwidth.
It's a TINY bit of potential savings versus a LOT of unhappy (read: lost) customers. I don't think it would save an amount of money that would be worth the risk in the least.
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@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@scottalanmiller said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@BBigford said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
@Dashrender said in BackBlaze vs. CrashPlan:
Depending on what you're backing up, how large your internet pipe is, etc - I'm not surprised it could take 8-24 (or way more) hours before the first backup shows up.
No no, it takes that long for EVERY backup (whether it is a new file or a change to an existing file) to show up. Have an old file opened and you just made a significant change to it? If your computer crashes within 8 hours of that time frame, your changes are all gone. Haven't closed the application in 4 days cause you always lock the PC? It's not backing up. That is straight from the horse's mouth.
Huh - again, not surprised on the open files not being backed up - do other desktop backup solutions backup open files? - are you sure?
But you're saying that once your computer sends a file to their servers, it takes their server 8 hours to make it available to you? or that your PC will only sync once every 8-24 hours?
They're not saying it takes 8-24 hours to be available, they're saying it could take 8-24 hours to upload.
Propagate would not be the term then. Propagate implies that it was uploaded somewhere and just isn't visible from all online nodes. 8+ hours to upload is what they would say. But that sounds fishy, they actually are waiting eight hours before considering uploading a file? I think that we need to double check that, that's very weird and does not mimic any behaviour that I have seen.
Maybe propagate isn't the right term. Double checking it though, I'd have to talk to someone else in the company cause everytime I chat them, I get the same Ryan. But there is no confusion there unless Ryan is the one who is confused because that is exactly how he described it.
Let's see if @aaron can shed some light on it. That BB just sits idle for eight hours waiting for your data to get old before uploading it seems crazy. Why would they have done that? I can't think of a reason why it would be good for them and it certainly is not good for you. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems fishy. And if I kick off a backup, it backs things up right away. Just try installing a fresh OS and kick off a backup, it does stuff.
It's good for them, potentially, because it could save them bandwidth.
I'm guessing that's why they do that. Saves bandwidth, but at a high cost to the company paying for the service, if a PC goes down and the upload hasn't run yet. Pretty disappointing. Hoping @aaron might be able to explain cause BB chat (Ryan) was super clear on the matter.
How much would it save, though? It still needs to back up. Having a one time eight hour latency benefit would be absolutely trivial. The same total backup volume would be needed.
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Unless the goal is to avoid uploading lots of incremental changes on a single file?
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But here is what seems wrong... if editing a file causes it to be blocked from backing up for eight hours, imagine if someone had a heavily used file that is modified once every eight hours or more... it would literally be super critical and never eligible for backup whatsoever.
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Even if they didn't edit for eight hours, if they edited at the beginning of a shift and turned their computer off at the end of the day (a common scenario) you would still get a "never backed up" file, even though it had existed for years and was used every day.
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@aaron @BBigford
Hola! My name is Christopher and I am one of the senior support guys @ Backblaze. Just want to clarify a few points, as it seems there's a little confusion.
Under the "Continuous" backup schedule setting (the default), the Backblaze software will automatically index the computer for new or changed files roughly once every 1-2 hours, depending on the system configuration. Following the completion of each indexing cycle, the Backblaze software will upload all the new or changed files that were just indexed. Once a file has been uploaded, it can take 1-2 hours for the file to appear and be available for restore through the Backblaze website.
In regards to open files, this is generally not an issue unless the file has not actually been saved to disk OR the application locks or prevents other applications from reading the file on disk (like Outlook does, for example). So long as the Backblaze software has the ability to read the file, it should be able to be included in the following Backblaze backup. We do not support VSS/Shadowcopy.
It's likely worth noting that any time the computer is shutdown or asleep, neither the file indexing nor upload processes can run. The user's power settings and usage patterns may effect the frequency with which either the indexing or upload processes complete.
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@ChristopherBB Welcome to MangoLassi!!
