OneDrive Sync Mechanics

[scottalanmiller]

@dafyre said:

@scottalanmiller -- Haven't you been having data issues with Microsoft for a while? It's not that I don't trust my cloud providers... As much as I simply don't know what they are doing to back up my data. That alone concerns me.

Yes, but not involving the backups.

[scottalanmiller]

@dafyre said:

If I had TBs of data in OneDrive, I'd expect Microsoft to be able to put back a single file, or my entire storage if they whoopsied my folders.

they would never put back a file. It would always be a restore of the whole thing.

[Dashrender]

@dafyre said:

@scottalanmiller -- Haven't you been having data issues with Microsoft for a while? It's not that I don't trust my cloud providers... As much as I simply don't know what they are doing to back up my data. That alone concerns me.

If I had TBs of data in OneDrive, I'd expect Microsoft to be able to put back a single file, or my entire storage if they whoopsied my folders. I don't know how they are able to accomplish this, so I feel less safe with my data in OneDrive or Amazon Cloud than I do using a service like Crashplan or Backblaze.

Those other services are geared toward exactly what you want - individual file restore, One Drive is not. Those other services are also a lot more money too.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

Do you transfer all photos to your PC, and then backup from there?

No, nothing goes to my PC.

So you backup manually only when on WiFi - what to save on data charges? Can't those apps be setup to only backup while on on WiFi? Sounding like a broken record, but I'm pretty sure both Android and WP can do that.

[dafyre]

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@scottalanmiller -- Haven't you been having data issues with Microsoft for a while? It's not that I don't trust my cloud providers... As much as I simply don't know what they are doing to back up my data. That alone concerns me.

If I had TBs of data in OneDrive, I'd expect Microsoft to be able to put back a single file, or my entire storage if they whoopsied my folders. I don't know how they are able to accomplish this, so I feel less safe with my data in OneDrive or Amazon Cloud than I do using a service like Crashplan or Backblaze.

Those other services are geared toward exactly what you want - individual file restore, One Drive is not. Those other services are also a lot more money too.

While it is true that OneDrive is a different animal that Crashplan, at least with Crashplan, I know my data is stored in two additional paces. If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said:

So you backup manually only when on WiFi - what to save on data charges? Can't those apps be setup to only backup while on on WiFi? Sounding like a broken record, but I'm pretty sure both Android and WP can do that.

I don't backup my phone at all, it is a phone, not a primary storage device.

[scottalanmiller]

@dafyre said:

If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

This is the "I don't trust the IT department" thing that I was saying above. Don't use any product if you distrust the vendor to this degree. If you think that they would not take backups, you also can't trust them not to steal your data. This concern, to me, should also eliminate Windows as a viable platform for you across the board. This is a level of trust that I feel you need from your OS vendor.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

So you backup manually only when on WiFi - what to save on data charges? Can't those apps be setup to only backup while on on WiFi? Sounding like a broken record, but I'm pretty sure both Android and WP can do that.

I don't backup my phone at all, it is a phone, not a primary storage device.

So you don't use it to take pictures?

[dafyre]

@scottalanmiller said:

@dafyre said:

If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

This is the "I don't trust the IT department" thing that I was saying above. Don't use any product if you distrust the vendor to this degree. If you think that they would not take backups, you also can't trust them not to steal your data. This concern, to me, should also eliminate Windows as a viable platform for you across the board. This is a level of trust that I feel you need from your OS vendor.

But can you trust closed source software?

And I'm trying to get away from Windows... but I also like to play various games, which sadly... require Windows.

[Dashrender]

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@scottalanmiller -- Haven't you been having data issues with Microsoft for a while? It's not that I don't trust my cloud providers... As much as I simply don't know what they are doing to back up my data. That alone concerns me.

If I had TBs of data in OneDrive, I'd expect Microsoft to be able to put back a single file, or my entire storage if they whoopsied my folders. I don't know how they are able to accomplish this, so I feel less safe with my data in OneDrive or Amazon Cloud than I do using a service like Crashplan or Backblaze.

Those other services are geared toward exactly what you want - individual file restore, One Drive is not. Those other services are also a lot more money too.

While it is true that OneDrive is a different animal that Crashplan, at least with Crashplan, I know my data is stored in two additional paces. If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

I personally don't see MS selling OneDrive as a backup. Mobile Sharing - Perhaps even OMG - my phone died/lost/stolen, etc... but not as a real backup.

Of course the normal consumer probably disagrees - I'd have to look at the settings - does it say - backup my device/photos, etc to OneDrive? It probably does - so I might be completely wrong.

But I also know that it's a sync client, not a backup client - the two fundamentally work differently. Sync means both sides should stay the same - you encrypt your local copy.. that gets copied to the cloud... you delete the local copy, that deletion gets transferred to the cloud. But a backup isn't like that. Change you make to the live data should never affect the backup data. OneDrive, Google Drive, etc are definitely not sold in that manner.

So as Scott mentioned - you're only hope is that they restore the whole thing, not a single file.

And if you are that worried about a single file - then you need to invest into a backup solution, not a sync solution.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said:

@dafyre said:

If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

This is the "I don't trust the IT department" thing that I was saying above. Don't use any product if you distrust the vendor to this degree. If you think that they would not take backups, you also can't trust them not to steal your data. This concern, to me, should also eliminate Windows as a viable platform for you across the board. This is a level of trust that I feel you need from your OS vendor.

Are you saying that Dafyre's mistrust of MS's backing up of their cloud storage constitutes mistrust of anything and everything they do? I suppose that makes sense when you write it out like that.

[BRRABill]

@dafyre said:

While it is true that OneDrive is a different animal that Crashplan, at least with Crashplan, I know my data is stored in two additional paces. If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

This is my whole point.

I've been burned too many times by
a-my own stupidity
b-other people's stupidity
c-faulty hardware

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@dafyre said:

If I use OneDrive and only OneDrive, I'd be concerned about backups and such... So I'd still need another service to back up my OneDrive...because: Paranoid.

This is the "I don't trust the IT department" thing that I was saying above. Don't use any product if you distrust the vendor to this degree. If you think that they would not take backups, you also can't trust them not to steal your data. This concern, to me, should also eliminate Windows as a viable platform for you across the board. This is a level of trust that I feel you need from your OS vendor.

Are you saying that Dafyre's mistrust of MS's backing up of their cloud storage constitutes mistrust of anything and everything they do? I suppose that makes sense when you write it out like that.

Basically, yes. Not everything. Like if you don't trust them with backups you might still trust them with video games. But it's a very basic mistrust when you think that they might be scamming you on backups. If you can't trust them when they say that they will take backups, where would you trust them?

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

So you backup manually only when on WiFi - what to save on data charges? Can't those apps be setup to only backup while on on WiFi? Sounding like a broken record, but I'm pretty sure both Android and WP can do that.

I don't backup my phone at all, it is a phone, not a primary storage device.

So you don't use it to take pictures?

I do. I feel like you have some built in assumptions that are leading to a chain of logic that doesn't apply to me or, really, most people that I know.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

So you backup manually only when on WiFi - what to save on data charges? Can't those apps be setup to only backup while on on WiFi? Sounding like a broken record, but I'm pretty sure both Android and WP can do that.

I don't backup my phone at all, it is a phone, not a primary storage device.

So you don't use it to take pictures?

I do. I feel like you have some built in assumptions that are leading to a chain of logic that doesn't apply to me or, really, most people that I know.

So you use your phone to take pictures - how do you backup those pictures? Trying to get away form assumptions and start the conversation over.

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said:

So you use your phone to take pictures - how do you backup those pictures? Trying to get away form assumptions and start the conversation over.

What you aren't asking even yet is... how do I store those pictures.

I store them on Flickr. Flickr is my primary image storage system.

[BRRABill]

@Dashrender said:

And if you are that worried about a single file - then you need to invest into a backup solution, not a sync solution.

The second part of my discussion here is how do you accomplish such a thing if you embrace the ML philosophy of "no data local".

I understand using various platforms for various things (Flickr for photos, OneDrive for Microsoft Data, etc.) but I am also trying to come up with something that

a-works well for me and
b-I can recommend to others as a viable solution

Honestly, right now, it seems as though OneDrive, synced locally, and backed up gives me the best solution here. Not counting cost, of course. (Because for $10 you could get full Office AND a TB of storage. Hard to apples to apples that.)

This gives me
a-local copy of data in case I am off WiFi
b-ability to access all my files in the cloud from any device
c-ability to backup my data to a 3rd location of my choosing, preferably a detached offline service such as BackBlaze or CrashPlan

Downside?
a-local data might get corrupted with a Cryto-type variant
b-data is not all stored in the cloud (which I still do not necessarily consider a downside)

[scottalanmiller]

@BRRABill said:

Downside?
a-local data might get corrupted with a Cryto-type variant

Which would propagate to the online and encrypt that too. If you want protection from that, you need a decoupled backup with file level restores. You either have to do that before you sync (versioning locally) or do it with the backup mechanism remotely (backup versioning.)

[wirestyle22]

@scottalanmiller said:

@BRRABill said:

Downside?
a-local data might get corrupted with a Cryto-type variant

Which would propagate to the online and encrypt that too. If you want protection from that, you need a decoupled backup with file level restores. You either have to do that before you sync (versioning locally) or do it with the backup mechanism remotely (backup versioning.)

I was just about to say this

[BRRABill]

@scottalanmiller said:

Basically, yes. Not everything. Like if you don't trust them with backups you might still trust them with video games. But it's a very basic mistrust when you think that they might be scamming you on backups. If you can't trust them when they say that they will take backups, where would you trust them?

Again, this has nothing to do with trusting Microsoft.

Are we really sure that Microsoft would even do a full restore for you if something goes wrong? Why do you feel they will do that. Is it documented somewhere?

I'd like file level, but would take a full restore if something really got wonky.