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    What does your Service Level Agreement look like?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller
      last edited by

      I see it this way... you should be partners with your MSP. When there is an emergency and the world is falling apart, do you want your MSP pointing to an SLA showing that your outage and disaster is none of their concern? When your MSP is idle or bored and would be happy to do work to help, do you want them not doing it because you are outside of official hours?

      You want your MSP being part of your team. SLAs mean you aren't looking at your MSP as a team member but an enemy you need to keep in line. It's fundamentally the wrong approach to a business relationship. Work together towards a common goal, don't start the relationship with the assumption that you are out to get each other.

      BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • BRRABillB
        BRRABill @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller

        OK, then how do you determine what they can call for?

        Or do you not care since it is all billable?

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
          last edited by

          @BRRABill said:

          @scottalanmiller

          OK, then how do you determine what they can call for?

          That's Scope, not SLA. That's rather different.

          But in general we do billable hours so that, like you said, these kinds of issues do not exist at all. The can ask us to come over and make grilled cheese sandwiches for all that we care.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • Minion QueenM
            Minion Queen
            last edited by

            Or fix the coffee pot (yes I have done that before).

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              That's the great thing about "billable hours." Scoping and SLAs are terrible, they generate all kinds of costly overhead that has to be absorbed by the customer in the long run. They create adversarial relationships. They make for excuses and "us and them" thinking. It's just bad. It makes the relationship about lawyers instead of about getting the job done.

              Billable hours you do whatever work is needed, whenever it is needed. Customer is free to use other resources if they need, vendor is free to do whatever work is needed. Tech doesn't have to sit around spending their time determining if they are doing allowed work. Customer doesn't have to wonder what is and isn't covered. No one is spending all of their time investing in finger pointing, everyone can just work together.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • brianlittlejohnB
                brianlittlejohn
                last edited by

                When I consulted I did no SLAs, no Scope, just billable hours.

                scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @brianlittlejohn
                  last edited by

                  @brianlittlejohn said:

                  When I consulted I did no SLAs, no Scope, just billable hours.

                  I'm not saying that you can do that 100%, but there are really great reasons for avoiding big legal bindings and focusing on getting things done instead.

                  brianlittlejohnB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • brianlittlejohnB
                    brianlittlejohn @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller I just saw all that as extra overhead. I had enough clients that didn't want it that I wouldn't take a client that did.

                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • scottalanmillerS
                      scottalanmiller @brianlittlejohn
                      last edited by

                      @brianlittlejohn said:

                      @scottalanmiller I just saw all that as extra overhead. I had enough clients that didn't want it that I wouldn't take a client that did.

                      Makes sense. Adding any SLA or Scoping adds huge effort and overhead. And often you have to do scoping before there is an agreement which can mean getting turned down for work and having to carry that cost on to new clients which makes each client harder and harder to be cost effective for.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • dafyreD
                        dafyre
                        last edited by

                        Not to get all preachy or religious or anything... But there's a couple Bible verses I always think about when setting up a contract to work for someone... It's mentioned a couple of times to "Let your yes be yes"... I take that to mean if it takes a team of lawyers to figure out what the contract says, then you are doing it wrong.

                        That's not to say don't use contracts. But write them in such a way that everyone understand them and is on the same page when they are signed. So you can say "Yes, we will work with you..." And if / when the customer says "We no longer wish to work with you," then that is okay too.

                        scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • BRRABillB
                          BRRABill
                          last edited by

                          How do you bill the things that are typically automated?

                          Most MSP levels we saw, that's all they do.

                          $20-$30 a month per machine to do updates, virus software, etc., but no tech ever touched those machines.

                          scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                            last edited by

                            @BRRABill said:

                            How do you bill the things that are typically automated?

                            Why would you bill something that you don't do?

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                              last edited by

                              @BRRABill said:

                              $20-$30 a month per machine to do updates, virus software, etc., but no tech ever touched those machines.

                              That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?

                              BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                last edited by

                                @dafyre said:

                                Not to get all preachy or religious or anything... But there's a couple Bible verses I always think about when setting up a contract to work for someone... It's mentioned a couple of times to "Let your yes be yes"... I take that to mean if it takes a team of lawyers to figure out what the contract says, then you are doing it wrong.

                                That's like saying America is wrong. Contracts in the US require lawyers. There is no such thing as legal clarity in the US legal system. The only way to "do it right" is to not have an SLA at all.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • Minion QueenM
                                  Minion Queen
                                  last edited by

                                  For things that are automated we only do those things for clients that use our services in general. They are billed at the amount of time it takes someone to check on those things to keep them running. Took 15 minutes this week to check on backups... that is what we charge for. We also charge for the initial setup of all those systems. If those systems cost us $$ to use then the client pays for that as well.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • BRRABillB
                                    BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                    last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller said:

                                    That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?

                                    There is lots being done:
                                    windows updates
                                    virus updates
                                    any required maintenance
                                    And of course the monitoring of all said events.

                                    It's just all automated for the most part.

                                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                      last edited by

                                      @dafyre said:

                                      That's not to say don't use contracts. But write them in such a way that everyone understand them and is on the same page when they are signed. So you can say "Yes, we will work with you..." And if / when the customer says "We no longer wish to work with you," then that is okay too.

                                      Any idea HOW you can even do that in IT? I would say it is literally impossible. If you use technical terms, the business people cannot understand. If you don't use technical terms then you can't be sure what is meant. I honestly have no idea how that could even be done.

                                      dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                        last edited by

                                        @BRRABill said:

                                        @scottalanmiller said:

                                        That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?

                                        There is lots being done:
                                        windows updates
                                        virus updates
                                        any required maintenance
                                        And of course the monitoring of all said events.

                                        It's just all automated for the most part.

                                        I understand that there is stuff to be done. But if the MSP isn't doing it, why would someone be paying them to do it?

                                        BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • BRRABillB
                                          BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                          last edited by

                                          @scottalanmiller said:

                                          I understand that there is stuff to be done. But if the MSP isn't doing it, why would someone be paying them to do it?

                                          They are responsible for getting it done. They just don't devote very much tech time to it once it is set up. There is no need to.

                                          It's the selling point of all the RMM solutions.

                                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • scottalanmillerS
                                            scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                            last edited by

                                            @BRRABill said:

                                            @scottalanmiller said:

                                            I understand that there is stuff to be done. But if the MSP isn't doing it, why would someone be paying them to do it?

                                            They are responsible for getting it done. They just don't devote very much tech time to it once it is set up. There is no need to.

                                            It's the selling point of all the RMM solutions.

                                            Selling RMM is selling a service. That's not hours, that's SaaS. You are paying for RMM access and licensing and whatnot. That's unrelated to billable hours, SLA, etc.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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