What does your Service Level Agreement look like?
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@BRRABill said:
Yeah, I consider them one in the same.
Again, not doing it ourselves but rather from looking at a lot of other MSPs, most of them bundle response time in with hours of operation. And it's just RESPONSE time, not resolution time.
Perhaps we are talking about different things.
No, talking about the same things. And I can see why you would combine the two things, but everyone has hours of operation and no one calls them their SLA. I get that technically, pedantically we can consider everything from the list of skills and services, to regions supported, holiday schedules and hours of operation all being called SLAs, but that's not what people mean when they talk SLAs normally. Related, of course.
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Resolution time should not generally be in an SLA, if you can guarantee a resolution time it implies knowledge of the issue and why would things be broken if we already knew what was wrong
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I see it this way... you should be partners with your MSP. When there is an emergency and the world is falling apart, do you want your MSP pointing to an SLA showing that your outage and disaster is none of their concern? When your MSP is idle or bored and would be happy to do work to help, do you want them not doing it because you are outside of official hours?
You want your MSP being part of your team. SLAs mean you aren't looking at your MSP as a team member but an enemy you need to keep in line. It's fundamentally the wrong approach to a business relationship. Work together towards a common goal, don't start the relationship with the assumption that you are out to get each other.
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OK, then how do you determine what they can call for?
Or do you not care since it is all billable?
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@BRRABill said:
OK, then how do you determine what they can call for?
That's Scope, not SLA. That's rather different.
But in general we do billable hours so that, like you said, these kinds of issues do not exist at all. The can ask us to come over and make grilled cheese sandwiches for all that we care.
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Or fix the coffee pot (yes I have done that before).
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That's the great thing about "billable hours." Scoping and SLAs are terrible, they generate all kinds of costly overhead that has to be absorbed by the customer in the long run. They create adversarial relationships. They make for excuses and "us and them" thinking. It's just bad. It makes the relationship about lawyers instead of about getting the job done.
Billable hours you do whatever work is needed, whenever it is needed. Customer is free to use other resources if they need, vendor is free to do whatever work is needed. Tech doesn't have to sit around spending their time determining if they are doing allowed work. Customer doesn't have to wonder what is and isn't covered. No one is spending all of their time investing in finger pointing, everyone can just work together.
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When I consulted I did no SLAs, no Scope, just billable hours.
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@brianlittlejohn said:
When I consulted I did no SLAs, no Scope, just billable hours.
I'm not saying that you can do that 100%, but there are really great reasons for avoiding big legal bindings and focusing on getting things done instead.
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@scottalanmiller I just saw all that as extra overhead. I had enough clients that didn't want it that I wouldn't take a client that did.
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@brianlittlejohn said:
@scottalanmiller I just saw all that as extra overhead. I had enough clients that didn't want it that I wouldn't take a client that did.
Makes sense. Adding any SLA or Scoping adds huge effort and overhead. And often you have to do scoping before there is an agreement which can mean getting turned down for work and having to carry that cost on to new clients which makes each client harder and harder to be cost effective for.
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Not to get all preachy or religious or anything... But there's a couple Bible verses I always think about when setting up a contract to work for someone... It's mentioned a couple of times to "Let your yes be yes"... I take that to mean if it takes a team of lawyers to figure out what the contract says, then you are doing it wrong.
That's not to say don't use contracts. But write them in such a way that everyone understand them and is on the same page when they are signed. So you can say "Yes, we will work with you..." And if / when the customer says "We no longer wish to work with you," then that is okay too.
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How do you bill the things that are typically automated?
Most MSP levels we saw, that's all they do.
$20-$30 a month per machine to do updates, virus software, etc., but no tech ever touched those machines.
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@BRRABill said:
How do you bill the things that are typically automated?
Why would you bill something that you don't do?
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@BRRABill said:
$20-$30 a month per machine to do updates, virus software, etc., but no tech ever touched those machines.
That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?
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@dafyre said:
Not to get all preachy or religious or anything... But there's a couple Bible verses I always think about when setting up a contract to work for someone... It's mentioned a couple of times to "Let your yes be yes"... I take that to mean if it takes a team of lawyers to figure out what the contract says, then you are doing it wrong.
That's like saying America is wrong. Contracts in the US require lawyers. There is no such thing as legal clarity in the US legal system. The only way to "do it right" is to not have an SLA at all.
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For things that are automated we only do those things for clients that use our services in general. They are billed at the amount of time it takes someone to check on those things to keep them running. Took 15 minutes this week to check on backups... that is what we charge for. We also charge for the initial setup of all those systems. If those systems cost us $$ to use then the client pays for that as well.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?
There is lots being done:
windows updates
virus updates
any required maintenance
And of course the monitoring of all said events.It's just all automated for the most part.
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@dafyre said:
That's not to say don't use contracts. But write them in such a way that everyone understand them and is on the same page when they are signed. So you can say "Yes, we will work with you..." And if / when the customer says "We no longer wish to work with you," then that is okay too.
Any idea HOW you can even do that in IT? I would say it is literally impossible. If you use technical terms, the business people cannot understand. If you don't use technical terms then you can't be sure what is meant. I honestly have no idea how that could even be done.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That sounds like a scam to me. Why would someone pay to have no one do anything?
There is lots being done:
windows updates
virus updates
any required maintenance
And of course the monitoring of all said events.It's just all automated for the most part.
I understand that there is stuff to be done. But if the MSP isn't doing it, why would someone be paying them to do it?
