Hours I work/PTO
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But I don't think that most people want to work that kind of chaotic schedule. Most people, yeah sure they are not as potentially good for the company, like knowing that they will be off work to attend their kids recital that evening at 7 PM.
I agree, but what I don't agree with is that most people love their jobs, or their work or career, or even really believe that you can. That people don't doesn't mean that they couldn't, though.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Now the eating healthy thing - I don't consider that the same as work at all because often to eat healthier, you have to spend more money on the better food. Which means you have less money for other things that you might want to do, like hobbies.
Healthy eating doesn't really cost more, it can be free.
i.e have your own garden?
Exactly, I know a lot of people that do that.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
I also wonder, how much of the population is working blue collar jobs that just can't afford flexibility. The pharmacist at Target can't just decide that they want to take 3 hours off in the middle of the day, they need to be at the store filling prescriptions from a to b time so people know things will be ready for them.
Perfect example. Pharmacist. A career that doesn't even need to exist and exists purely because a medical union pressured the fed to create an artificial need for those jobs so that people who want them can get them. There is no need for that job and it's awful. No one needs to work that job. A computer can do that job. If people wanted happier jobs, they could simply choose not to be pharmacists. The world wouldn't end, nothing bad would happen, they could do something else more productive and let computers do the pharmacy work.
That we've created busy work to keep people who aren't out looking for happiness busy isn't in dispute. Only that any given individual has the chance to not follow that system if they chose to. Could everyone all do jobs that they love? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter, because they won't. And enough always won't that those that choose to, probably always can. Or nearly always.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Just look at me here, My boss would say that I can't time shift my job either. When someone's PC/printer/network is down, they need it fixed now.
But how does that apply? All you are saying is that your job isn't make itself the job you love, nothing more. They don't need you all that time, they just need the job done.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
I'd really like to have @Minion-Queen say that she loves her job so much that she would like to never (or almost never) take a vacation from it.
She said that in the other thread last week, actually.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Now the eating healthy thing - I don't consider that the same as work at all because often to eat healthier, you have to spend more money on the better food. Which means you have less money for other things that you might want to do, like hobbies.
Healthy eating doesn't really cost more, it can be free.
i.e have your own garden?
Exactly, I know a lot of people that do that.
huh - the amount of food it takes to feed one person from a garden is about one acre so I've been told.. the amount of work involved in taking care of that is anything but free, and would basically replace your hobbies. so I guess the money question of before become moot since you'd have no time anyhow.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Short of you Scott, I know of no one who loves their job so much as to say that don't want a vacation from it.
And? What do you derive from that? Other than I know other people that are like this too, my point isn't that everyone does this, only that people should do this. I never argued that people are prioritizing their overall happiness well. Only that they should.
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"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." - Confucius
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/c/confucius134717.html
This isn't some "Scott-ism", this is long held wisdom that I just take to heart.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But I don't think that most people want to work that kind of chaotic schedule. Most people, yeah sure they are not as potentially good for the company, like knowing that they will be off work to attend their kids recital that evening at 7 PM.
I agree, but what I don't agree with is that most people love their jobs, or their work or career, or even really believe that you can. That people don't doesn't mean that they couldn't, though.
Oh now there I agree with you - most people don't love their jobs.. don't know about the "don't believe they can" part, but I suppose that could be true too.
I know a guy who loves to paint minis, he also loves to talk about guns... but painting minis doesn't pay very well, and neither does talking about guns.
Not to mention the fact that there's a belief (no idea if it's true or not) if your hobby becomes your job, good chances are you'll eventually hate that hobby.
But my point was more about are there enough jobs in the world doing what people WANT to do versus things that NEED to be done for the majority to be loving their job? This seems unlikely.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Not to mention the fact that there's a belief (no idea if it's true or not) if your hobby becomes your job, good chances are you'll eventually hate that hobby.
I've never heard of that happening, to anyone, ever. But I hear lots of people who influence people into set societal roles repeat it. It's a very handy way to discourage people from doing jobs that would make them happy into doing jobs that business people want to fill.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Just look at me here, My boss would say that I can't time shift my job either. When someone's PC/printer/network is down, they need it fixed now.
But how does that apply? All you are saying is that your job isn't make itself the job you love, nothing more. They don't need you all that time, they just need the job done.
But they need it done when it breaks, so I can't just be gone for 5 hours in the middle of the day and work 5 hours at night instead.
And you're right, while I like the job I do, I don't love it.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But my point was more about are there enough jobs in the world doing what people WANT to do versus things that NEED to be done for the majority to be loving their job? This seems unlikely.
Right, and my point was that that is a red herring. It's like the college argument. No matter how much "someone" needs to go to college for "some job", it doesn't change the fact that nothing we say will change the market so much than anyone who decides to think critically about how to get to a great job doesn't need to go to college. The "what if we sway everyone" concern is simply not relevant. Sure, maybe everyone can't love their job, but what matters is that anyone can. See the difference?
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But they need it done when it breaks, so I can't just be gone for 5 hours in the middle of the day and work 5 hours at night instead.
But that's because they've decided to make it about you, but they don't have to. That's not what they need. What they need is the capability, not for you to make it happen. That they choose to treat you one way doesn't imply that they need to treat you that way.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." - Confucius
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/c/confucius134717.html
This isn't some "Scott-ism", this is long held wisdom that I just take to heart.
LOL - yeah I know this is old as dirt... I'm definitely not calling it a Scott-ism.. but I also believe that people truly don't want to be happy either (at least most don't).
I have friends that I look at (and occasionally the mirror) that they seem to only derive joy in hassling others. They rarely see happiness/goodness, whatever you want to call it in what are classically deemed positive things.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
LOL - yeah I know this is old as dirt... I'm definitely not calling it a Scott-ism.. but I also believe that people truly don't want to be happy either (at least most don't).
RIght, it's not that people can't be happy, it's that it just doesn't seem to be that important to many people.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But my point was more about are there enough jobs in the world doing what people WANT to do versus things that NEED to be done for the majority to be loving their job? This seems unlikely.
Right, and my point was that that is a red herring. It's like the college argument. No matter how much "someone" needs to go to college for "some job", it doesn't change the fact that nothing we say will change the market so much than anyone who decides to think critically about how to get to a great job doesn't need to go to college. The "what if we sway everyone" concern is simply not relevant. Sure, maybe everyone can't love their job, but what matters is that anyone can. See the difference?
Yeah I see what you're driving at here.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Not to mention the fact that there's a belief (no idea if it's true or not) if your hobby becomes your job, good chances are you'll eventually hate that hobby.
I can safely say that this has not been the case for me. I've been around computers and made it my hobby almost my entire life. I even finally got a job in it, and I do it all day every day... (I'd do it more if I could, lol).
I spend a large portion of my waking life in front of a computer. I talk to my wife all day via Facebook, I talk with you guys on here all day, except when I'm actually needed to be AFK... and I come home and tinker with computers too, while still chatting with folks and talking to the folks at the house... I still love my job, and what I do.
I don't have as much time to devote to it any more...but for good reasons (family!).
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@dafyre said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Not to mention the fact that there's a belief (no idea if it's true or not) if your hobby becomes your job, good chances are you'll eventually hate that hobby.
I can safely say that this has not been the case for me. I've been around computers and made it my hobby almost my entire life. I even finally got a job in it, and I do it all day every day... (I'd do it more if I could, lol).
I spend a large portion of my waking life in front of a computer. I talk to my wife all day via Facebook, I talk with you guys on here all day, except when I'm actually needed to be AFK... and I come home and tinker with computers too, while still chatting with folks and talking to the folks at the house... I still love my job, and what I do.
I don't have as much time to devote to it any more...but for good reasons (family!).
Chatting via Facebook is hardly IT related. Granted there are tons of non IT people I know that work on computers all day (as in PowerPoint/Excel/ERP, etc) and they totally want to disconnect from the computer completely at night.
But wanting to be online is simply social, not really computer related, just happens to be way more convenient online than going to the bar or where ever to socialize. -
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@dafyre said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Not to mention the fact that there's a belief (no idea if it's true or not) if your hobby becomes your job, good chances are you'll eventually hate that hobby.
I can safely say that this has not been the case for me. I've been around computers and made it my hobby almost my entire life. I even finally got a job in it, and I do it all day every day... (I'd do it more if I could, lol).
I spend a large portion of my waking life in front of a computer. I talk to my wife all day via Facebook, I talk with you guys on here all day, except when I'm actually needed to be AFK... and I come home and tinker with computers too, while still chatting with folks and talking to the folks at the house... I still love my job, and what I do.
I don't have as much time to devote to it any more...but for good reasons (family!).
Chatting via Facebook is hardly IT related. Granted there are tons of non IT people I know that work on computers all day (as in PowerPoint/Excel/ERP, etc) and they totally want to disconnect from the computer completely at night.
But wanting to be online is simply social, not really computer related, just happens to be way more convenient online than going to the bar or where ever to socialize.What you say is very true. But for me, the fact that I can chat with you guys and my wife all day as I'm working is a large part of my job satisfaction, and it makes me feel much less disconnected from my family and friends while I'm at work.
Not quite the level of freedom that @scottalanmiller has, but lightly leaning in that direction.
