ZeroTier Question
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Ug.. did you just say NetBIOS?
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@Dashrender said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Ug.. did you just say NetBIOS?
Yes. That magic way that everything works on a LAN without DNS.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
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@dafyre I too have found reliability to be a problem.
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Let's wait and hear back from @WLS-ITGuy before we go too far down the rabbit hole.
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
NetBIOS is reliable when addresses don't change like with Pertino and ZeroTier.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
NetBIOS is reliable when addresses don't change like with Pertino and ZeroTier.
Therein lies our problem.. He wants to use ZeroTier.
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Anyway, as I linked at some point above and it was apparently not understood, i have zero problems access network resources over ZeroTier from this laptop. There is not any DNS setup. So that does mean that if the laptop never comes in the office, it will eventually lose trust with the server because domain.local does not resolve, only the machine names.
No I could easily fix that by adding a line to the
hostsfile with the ZeroTier IP of one of the domain controllers and the domain suffix like this:10.202.3.21 domain.localThen even domain queries will work. But for machines that are on and off the network all the time, it is usually not needed as they get their tokens refreshed often enough.
Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : dt-backup-laptop Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : domain.local Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : domain.local Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2: Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : ZeroTier One Virtual Port #2 Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : A2-E2-9D-9B-48-F1 DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fd56:5799:d8f6:3ed4:a199:9336:a36d:9068(P referred) Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::e023:2905:284a:b878%24(Preferred) IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 10.202.3.188(Preferred) Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 25.255.255.254 DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 587267855 DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-19-2C-13-92-F0-1F-AF-13-7A-8E DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1 fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1 fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1 NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection: Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Centrino(R) Advanced-N 6205 Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 6C-88-14-5A-B5-A0 DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::d90e:714e:228:aafb%12(Preferred) IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.8(Preferred) Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, May 09, 2016 7:43:00 PM Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, May 11, 2016 3:06:04 PM Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 225216532 DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-19-2C-13-92-F0-1F-AF-13-7A-8E DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled -
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
NetBIOS is reliable when addresses don't change like with Pertino and ZeroTier.
Therein lies our problem.. He wants to use ZeroTier.
WTF? What problem? I just said it was reliable on ZeroTier.
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@Dashrender said in ZeroTier Question:
@WLS-ITGuy said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre I got the onsite vs offsite part. However, shouldn't ZeroTier handle the offsite routing? Or is that not how this works
It's not about handling routing because there would be no route.
Example
Server internal wire network IP - 192.16.8.10
________________________ZT IP - 10.0.50.10If, when you're offsite, DNS returns the 192.16.8.10 address, the ZT network would never look at this traffic because it's not part of the ZT network. Instead that traffic would go to the normal NIC, wireless probably, and go out that way and of course fail.
And this is why I default to building a ZT Gateway. Yes, it is more work up front. Yes, it is slightly more complicated. However, it prevents you from having to deal with these types of issues.
In what way? If the wrong DNS is being grabbed, how does the extra complexity of the gateway make it easier?
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
NetBIOS is reliable when addresses don't change like with Pertino and ZeroTier.
Therein lies our problem.. He wants to use ZeroTier.
He meant that Pertino and ZeroTier are places where the IP does not change. Their addresses are stable. Unlike many traditional VPN services.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
Connect him up via ZeroTier, and set your DNS Server's ZT IP on the zt Nic, and you should be good to go.
Why. You keep saying this and I keep telling you that it is a bad idea.
I have ZeroTier running and it resolves ZeroTier IP addresses with no DNS modifications.
What are you using to do that? Your windows AD DNS?
Nothing. ZeroTier passes NetBIOS. This is really basic.
Yes it does. In my experience, over VPN type techs (like Pertino, ZT, OpenVPN, etc), Netbios has not been reliable.
NetBIOS is reliable when addresses don't change like with Pertino and ZeroTier.
Therein lies our problem.. He wants to use ZeroTier.
WTF? What problem? I just said it was reliable on ZeroTier.
I knew what you meant but after reading what he responded and reading your post again I figured out that the word order could be emphasized differently to make it sound like you were saying that they were an example of stable OR an example of unstable.
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@scottalanmiller said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@Dashrender said in ZeroTier Question:
@WLS-ITGuy said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre I got the onsite vs offsite part. However, shouldn't ZeroTier handle the offsite routing? Or is that not how this works
It's not about handling routing because there would be no route.
Example
Server internal wire network IP - 192.16.8.10
________________________ZT IP - 10.0.50.10If, when you're offsite, DNS returns the 192.16.8.10 address, the ZT network would never look at this traffic because it's not part of the ZT network. Instead that traffic would go to the normal NIC, wireless probably, and go out that way and of course fail.
And this is why I default to building a ZT Gateway. Yes, it is more work up front. Yes, it is slightly more complicated. However, it prevents you from having to deal with these types of issues.
In what way? If the wrong DNS is being grabbed, how does the extra complexity of the gateway make it easier?
In essence the device becomes part of the physical lan...this means that you no longer have to install ZT on every device ... Only those that leave the office.
Rather than having ZT IP space and LAN IP space... they become one single IP space. This means that the DNS server's won't have to randomly decide whether or not to give out a ZT IP, or a LAN IP... They only have one IP to give out... This is where the complexity pays for itself, to me. We don't have to do any fancy DNS hijacking like Pertino does.
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All of the above said, it is best to setup DNS.
But you have to be aware of what you are doing and the side effects it will have, as well as the extra work it will entail.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
All of the above said, it is best to setup DNS.
But you have to be aware of what you are doing and the side effects it will have, as well as the extra work it will entail.
^ This, for sure.
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
In essence the device becomes part of the physical lan...this means that you no longer have to install ZT on every device ... Only those that leave the office.
Rather than having ZT IP space and LAN IP space... they become one single IP space. This means that the DNS server's won't have to randomly decide whether or not to give out a ZT IP, or a LAN IP... They only have one IP to give out... This is where the complexity pays for itself, to me. We don't have to do any fancy DNS hijacking like Pertino does.
I see, because you are not layering IPs for the servers, only for some of the clients.
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@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@scottalanmiller said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@Dashrender said in ZeroTier Question:
@WLS-ITGuy said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre I got the onsite vs offsite part. However, shouldn't ZeroTier handle the offsite routing? Or is that not how this works
It's not about handling routing because there would be no route.
Example
Server internal wire network IP - 192.16.8.10
________________________ZT IP - 10.0.50.10If, when you're offsite, DNS returns the 192.16.8.10 address, the ZT network would never look at this traffic because it's not part of the ZT network. Instead that traffic would go to the normal NIC, wireless probably, and go out that way and of course fail.
And this is why I default to building a ZT Gateway. Yes, it is more work up front. Yes, it is slightly more complicated. However, it prevents you from having to deal with these types of issues.
In what way? If the wrong DNS is being grabbed, how does the extra complexity of the gateway make it easier?
In essence the device becomes part of the physical lan...this means that you no longer have to install ZT on every device ... Only those that leave the office.
Rather than having ZT IP space and LAN IP space... they become one single IP space. This means that the DNS server's won't have to randomly decide whether or not to give out a ZT IP, or a LAN IP... They only have one IP to give out.
That is not being talked about anywhere in this thread. Why would you suddenly curve this into something like that.
While it certainly is something that can be setup, let's not detract from the point at hand.
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@scottalanmiller said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
In essence the device becomes part of the physical lan...this means that you no longer have to install ZT on every device ... Only those that leave the office.
Rather than having ZT IP space and LAN IP space... they become one single IP space. This means that the DNS server's won't have to randomly decide whether or not to give out a ZT IP, or a LAN IP... They only have one IP to give out... This is where the complexity pays for itself, to me. We don't have to do any fancy DNS hijacking like Pertino does.
I see, because you are not layering IPs for the servers, only for some of the clients.
Exactly.
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@JaredBusch said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@scottalanmiller said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre said in ZeroTier Question:
@Dashrender said in ZeroTier Question:
@WLS-ITGuy said in ZeroTier Question:
@dafyre I got the onsite vs offsite part. However, shouldn't ZeroTier handle the offsite routing? Or is that not how this works
It's not about handling routing because there would be no route.
Example
Server internal wire network IP - 192.16.8.10
________________________ZT IP - 10.0.50.10If, when you're offsite, DNS returns the 192.16.8.10 address, the ZT network would never look at this traffic because it's not part of the ZT network. Instead that traffic would go to the normal NIC, wireless probably, and go out that way and of course fail.
And this is why I default to building a ZT Gateway. Yes, it is more work up front. Yes, it is slightly more complicated. However, it prevents you from having to deal with these types of issues.
In what way? If the wrong DNS is being grabbed, how does the extra complexity of the gateway make it easier?
In essence the device becomes part of the physical lan...this means that you no longer have to install ZT on every device ... Only those that leave the office.
Rather than having ZT IP space and LAN IP space... they become one single IP space. This means that the DNS server's won't have to randomly decide whether or not to give out a ZT IP, or a LAN IP... They only have one IP to give out.
That is not being talked about anywhere in this thread. Why would you suddenly curve this into something like that.
While it certainly is something that can be setup, let's not detract from the point at hand.
Scott asked the question, and I answered.
