Warhammer 40k
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As a side note Saturday is Geek and Sundry's Tabletop Day. If you head over to your Friendly Local Game Store they may be doing war gaming demos throughout the day.
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@coliver yeah we have a few "Games Workshop" shops close by, they are always willing to talk and share experience etc
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@NattNatt said in Warhammer 40k:
@coliver yeah we have a few "Games Workshop" shops close by, they are always willing to talk and share experience etc
That's a good resource to have.
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I'm currently a player, so i'll throw in my $.02.
The startup cost is insane. Around 300-500 (depending on the army you want to play), just to have a small army, rules, paints, hobby materials, dice, templates, etc. Then there's the time sink, which could be just clipping models and putting them together, leaving them as grey plastic, or taking the hours, days, months, and sometimes (if you're like me) years to paint. After that, there are the rules which, once you get the hang of them are like second nature, but can take some getting used to (there are TONS of 'learn to play' vids out there, I suggest miniwargaming.com)
The reward you get out of all this is an army that is yours. As an example, no one uses my paint job that I know of, no one used the same background for their army as I did for mine, no one has exactly the same army list as I do...etc. There is so much customization potential, you just need to put the time, money, and effort into it.
Another thing to consider is, are there enough players in your area? What kind of community are they; power gamers, relaxed, creative? I have about 2 people I get to play on a regular basis who are great people, but it's getting stale with the small number of players, which is why I'm branching into X-Wing and starting to look at Warmachine.
Has he played 40k? If not, see if there are gamers around willing to let him use an army and try it. Do the same with Warmachine, Infinity, Mercs, Dust, etc. There are a lot of wargames out there, and most are cheaper than 40k. (FLGS will sometimes run demos on these games too if there's interest)
If he really likes the lore, look and feel of 40k, then so be it. Start small, and gradually work up the army (which no one does, believe me). Try Kill Teams, which is a small skirmish version of 40k. (free non-GW rules: http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html)
Those are some ideas to think about. I could honestly write you a book if you'd like with opinions and the like. Good luck!
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We have a Games Workshop in our town and they run free clubs on Sundays for kids to turn up and get help with painting and playing. They also organise competitions. The shop is just one guy, and he's pretty cool. It's all free. I say "free", but the proviso is that you buy everything from the shop, which is fair enough, but precludes buy stuff cheaper online.
My lad has tried to get his mates interested, but without success. So initially, he's going to want to playing with me. I like the opportunity to bond with him, but I have no interest in the game (although I like the painting). He's moving to a new school in September and I'm hoping they have a club there.
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@Carnival-Boy Yeah, regards a club at the school, can he not start one himself..? We did at school, organised the time, place etc and we got quite a few people interested after they saw how it actually "worked" etc
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He's pretty shy, so not likely to organise something himself. If he could get a mate or two interested it would be possible.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Warhammer 40k:
We have a Games Workshop in our town and they run free clubs on Sundays for kids to turn up and get help with painting and playing. They also organise competitions. The shop is just one guy, and he's pretty cool. It's all free. I say "free", but the proviso is that you buy everything from the shop, which is fair enough, but precludes buy stuff cheaper online.
My lad has tried to get his mates interested, but without success. So initially, he's going to want to playing with me. I like the opportunity to bond with him, but I have no interest in the game (although I like the painting). He's moving to a new school in September and I'm hoping they have a club there.
Ah, it could be the overall cost that is dissuading his class mates. It may be a good idea to start with a less expensive war game. X-Wing is 50$ I think for the starter kit which is both Rebels and Imperials as well as 3 or 4 missions. By that I mean it is everything you need to play. Expansions, more ships, run 12-100$ depending on the size but the majority are in the 15-30$ range.
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I've played many of the games mentioned here - have a half painted Tyranid army, etc.
Time - the biggest cost to any of these games is time. Its so much worse than the money it's scary when you consider as @Mr-Cthulhu mentioned $300-500 starting point for most of them. The average game takes 2 hours, this does not include setup and tear down. Don't get me wrong, if you like it it can be worth it - but it's pretty darn hard to have any other hobbies if you really are involved in this one.
As for the $300-500, that's just a starter. If you really get into these games, being at $2000 in a year is not unreasonable at all. And you know how they say that marijuana is a gateway drug - well, if you get even moderately into one of these games, I have rarely seen a person keep it to only one - so this is definitely a gateway to many others, and even more time and more money.
The nice thing about X-Wing and a few of the others is that the models are ready to go. take them out of the box and you're ready to play. This is amazing time saver. But, if you do like you paint, you always have the option to repaint your models anyway you like.
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FYI, Amazon was blowing out the last box set for Xwing minis a few days ago.. they might still have some.
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@Dashrender said in Warhammer 40k:
I've played many of the games mentioned here - have a half painted Tyranid army, etc.
Time - the biggest cost to any of these games is time. Its so much worse than the money it's scary when you consider as @Mr-Cthulhu mentioned $300-500 starting point for most of them. The average game takes 2 hours, this does not include setup and tear down. Don't get me wrong, if you like it it can be worth it - but it's pretty darn hard to have any other hobbies if you really are involved in this one.
As for the $300-500, that's just a starter. If you really get into these games, being at $2000 in a year is not unreasonable at all. And you know how they say that marijuana is a gateway drug - well, if you get even moderately into one of these games, I have rarely seen a person keep it to only one - so this is definitely a gateway to many others, and even more time and more money.
The nice thing about X-Wing and a few of the others is that the models are ready to go. take them out of the box and you're ready to play. This is amazing time saver. But, if you do like you paint, you always have the option to repaint your models anyway you like.
Then the mods. My brother's friend installed an LED strip in the Millennium Falcon's exhaust. So that it lights up when you put it on its base.
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@coliver said in Warhammer 40k:
@Dashrender said in Warhammer 40k:
I've played many of the games mentioned here - have a half painted Tyranid army, etc.
Time - the biggest cost to any of these games is time. Its so much worse than the money it's scary when you consider as @Mr-Cthulhu mentioned $300-500 starting point for most of them. The average game takes 2 hours, this does not include setup and tear down. Don't get me wrong, if you like it it can be worth it - but it's pretty darn hard to have any other hobbies if you really are involved in this one.
As for the $300-500, that's just a starter. If you really get into these games, being at $2000 in a year is not unreasonable at all. And you know how they say that marijuana is a gateway drug - well, if you get even moderately into one of these games, I have rarely seen a person keep it to only one - so this is definitely a gateway to many others, and even more time and more money.
The nice thing about X-Wing and a few of the others is that the models are ready to go. take them out of the box and you're ready to play. This is amazing time saver. But, if you do like you paint, you always have the option to repaint your models anyway you like.
Then the mods. My brother's friend installed an LED strip in the Millennium Falcon's exhaust. So that it lights up when you put it on its base.
yeah I was at the World's Championship games last year - someone had an awesome half cloaked paint job on their Phantom. The mods can be pretty darn cool.
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@Carnival-Boy I've been trying to get other friends into 40k for a while, but it's hard to sell, to the point where I've given up completely. I still play, but the incentive to continue is dwindling, what with other games that fit my wallet and schedule better.
One thing that I love(d) from Warhammer (fantasy and 40k) was terrain. I loved making terrain, building tables, coming up with layouts for games, it was great. Nice thing about that part of the game was it was relatively cheap, still time consuming, but cheap.
@Dashrender is right too, about 2000 a year is a solid number. Then the time to build and paint, etc. The 2 hour gaming session doesn't bother me as much, as it is 2-4 hours I am hanging out with friends, but since we're all getting older and gaining responsibilities (kids, wives, etc), the 30min-1.5hr sessions of X-Wing and Warmachine are becoming more appealing.
Like I said before, have him try a bunch of different games, and different armies. He might find out that 40k is too complicated and too time consuming, or he might absolutely love it and your wallet will weep unholy tears once his birthday and holidays come up, you never know.
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Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Warhammer 40k:
War gaming
Haven't played W40K specifically but that's exciting that he wants to do it. Going to build a huge table and get him into painting all of is own figures? I did a lot of that when I was young.
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@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
If you don't need to buy every new game immediately PC gaming is far, far cheaper.
It isn't $300-500 to start with $50-80 ongoing. It is $300-500 to start with $100-150 every time you want to add a unit to your army. You need a specific sized army to be competitive. The costs of the books and the new releases adds up too.
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@coliver said in Warhammer 40k:
@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
If you don't need to buy every new game immediately PC gaming is far, far cheaper.
It isn't $300-500 to start with $50-80 ongoing. It is $300-500 to start with $100-150 every time you want to add a unit to your army. You need a specific sized army to be competitive. The costs of the books and the new releases adds up too.
Yeah, and in this day and age most people can PC game without any specific investment. Who doesn't have a PC? A few people, but very few. Almost all kids are able to play games, at least to some degree, on the equipment that they have already. Use Steam or GOG and you could have a huge game library for $50 total cost.
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@coliver said in Warhammer 40k:
@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
If you don't need to buy every new game immediately PC gaming is far, far cheaper.
It isn't $300-500 to start with $50-80 ongoing. It is $300-500 to start with $100-150 every time you want to add a unit to your army. You need a specific sized army to be competitive. The costs of the books and the new releases adds up too.
Ahh, competitive, that is the difference. I thought we were talking about building a small army and playing some small games at the hobby shop. I used to play MTG with a group of friends all though high school, but it slowly ended up being a battle of the pocket book, and less about casual gaming so I eventually just quit.
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@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
@coliver said in Warhammer 40k:
@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
If you don't need to buy every new game immediately PC gaming is far, far cheaper.
It isn't $300-500 to start with $50-80 ongoing. It is $300-500 to start with $100-150 every time you want to add a unit to your army. You need a specific sized army to be competitive. The costs of the books and the new releases adds up too.
Ahh, competitive, that is the difference. I thought we were talking about building a small army and playing some small games at the hobby shop. I used to play MTG with a group of friends all though high school, but it slowly ended up being a battle of the pocket book, and less about casual gaming so I eventually just quit.
Battle of the pocket book, one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing Magic. Back in my day, without that darn interwebs telling us the price of them cardboard cards, we used to just hand cards we weren't using to friends. Now these darn kids crack out TI-83s to make sure their trades aren't losing them cash.
The initial startup is about the same as a console startup, you're right. But the thing that draws most people away from wargaming is the added time cost. When you buy a console, you plug it in and start playing. Instant gratification (hello Magic players!). When you buy wargames, you spend hours building and painting. That's some people's thing (I love building, could do without painting), but not everyone's.
Also, a friend of mine has about 3-4 fully painted armies, and is starting a new one this year. I have about half of the force I'd like to have in one army in order to play him on a point level that we'd both be happy with, so I feel pressured to buy buy buy. If you and your mates are all starting small together, this isn't as big an issue however.
There are other wargames out there that cost far less money and time (looking at you X-Wing and Warmachine/Hordes). Again, whatever your preference is, play that.
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@Mr.-Cthulhu said in Warhammer 40k:
@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
@coliver said in Warhammer 40k:
@s.hackleman said in Warhammer 40k:
Why is everyone making a big deal about cost. $300-500 startup with $50-80 on going for a hobby isn't bad at all. That is almost exactly the same as a PS4, and way cheeper than PC gaming.
If you don't need to buy every new game immediately PC gaming is far, far cheaper.
It isn't $300-500 to start with $50-80 ongoing. It is $300-500 to start with $100-150 every time you want to add a unit to your army. You need a specific sized army to be competitive. The costs of the books and the new releases adds up too.
Ahh, competitive, that is the difference. I thought we were talking about building a small army and playing some small games at the hobby shop. I used to play MTG with a group of friends all though high school, but it slowly ended up being a battle of the pocket book, and less about casual gaming so I eventually just quit.
Battle of the pocket book, one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing Magic. Back in my day, without that darn interwebs telling us the price of them cardboard cards, we used to just hand cards we weren't using to friends. Now these darn kids crack out TI-83s to make sure their trades aren't losing them cash.
The initial startup is about the same as a console startup, you're right. But the thing that draws most people away from wargaming is the added time cost. When you buy a console, you plug it in and start playing. Instant gratification (hello Magic players!). When you buy wargames, you spend hours building and painting. That's some people's thing (I love building, could do without painting), but not everyone's.
Also, a friend of mine has about 3-4 fully painted armies, and is starting a new one this year. I have about half of the force I'd like to have in one army in order to play him on a point level that we'd both be happy with, so I feel pressured to buy buy buy. If you and your mates are all starting small together, this isn't as big an issue however.
There are other wargames out there that cost far less money and time (looking at you X-Wing and Warmachine/Hordes). Again, whatever your preference is, play that.
This is why I have moved to contained board games. 1 time Cost, no barrier to get friends to join in and play, and no on going cost other than expansions.
