Fundamental Difference in the Mindset for Updates of Linux vs. Windows Admins
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@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
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@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Ditto - damn - what a twat. LOL
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@Dashrender said:
@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Ditto - damn - want twat. LOL
Uh.... that may be a bit personal.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Ditto - damn - want twat. LOL
Uh.... that may be a bit personal.
hahahahahha
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Ditto - damn - want twat. LOL
Uh.... that may be a bit personal.
damn it.. type o... but I think you got what I was going for. Sorry if it offended you.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@johnhooks said:
Ok. 35 years in IT. I don't even know what to say.....
I agree, 35+ years in this and it was the Unix clan that had a chance and never delivered on a single unified desktop/server FOR THE MASSES. Stupid names, gurus that hold on to CLI stuff like the guy in lord of the rings. Arrogance has always played the role. Bill Gates did one thing the unix clan couldn't or didn't want to pull off STANDARDS. I hate GREP, VEDIT blah blah blah. FILE EDIT HELP on menu is what did it in simple windows after we climbed out of DOS hell. I will never for get Visual Basic put butt kick on C when V3 came out I loved it! C arrogance from Unix Arrogance was hating it. My own brother laughed when should him Windows while he was living in DOS and said it would never fly, what and idiot. Now Ubuntu (which I love and CentOS) has the BASIC WINDOWS keys because they HAD to, they still use stupid dumb unrelated to the application names and still don't get it. No, What PHPAdmin do? PHP management? NO MYSQL! Why no MySQLAdmin WOW a miracle, stupid names again and again. Consistent Windows Features like CONTROL PANEL, DHCP Manager, DNS Manager on and on are ALL available and improving with each version. A windows 2012 server with Hyper-V and RDS, ready to go. I throw a windows machine on my network, I can RDP to it and manage it. Why doesn't UBUNTU let me join it to Windows Network have RDP enabled so I can use it more I would get hooked. BUT NOOooooo Again, arrogant person somewhere made the decision not to and yes I can load it and join after spending an hour or so.. I know just built one. I love the fact Ubuntu has grown up to be like Windows with Unix in the back and I can load it off one disk on a computer where windows 10 would let the sound work but everything worked on Unbuntu. But I cant RDP to I it yet and I don't want to mess with it, because if I do I will put Windows 7 on it if needed which works great as well. Linux is cheap, MySQL can go up to bat with MSSQL and cheaper and no that they have GUI you can manage them. But what happens, you work somewhere there is an Arrogant Linux idiot that strips shells off everything wants to run Windows CORE because HE loves it, more efficient which is marginal with out the GUI and is always using CLI on his machine. I had years of CLI I know the benefits I also hated the BS hassle and wasted time it caused on many levels. File Explorer was heaven sent along with the Browser, for Gopher and Lynx what a joke. MSSQL Manager and Windows Server Tools are easy use, find and manage and easy to teach others. While UNIX community continued to trat users like idiots and laughed they stop after MILLIONS were using a new platform they didn't know much about. Phones ALSO proved GUI and Metro apps are they way to go just like WINDOWS proved years earlier. I hope Ubuntu and other clones of it keep going, UNIX had the power, it just had to have a bunch less selfish people get it to the public. MAC will hang on to about 11% of the market for being closed systems and its a great platform. Linux, not counting headless Back end servers will be about 7%. People still trust and know how to buy and run windows and everyone can use it. Linux still hasn't got that trust from the average person or gurus. Yes lots of us in the work force will have to work and tolerate it but that is about as far as it goes for now.
TL:DR - I am a Windows admin who get's defensive when someone points out a flaw in my operating system. Then I rip apart the features I don't like (even though they are often easier and faster to use).
Ya I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Ditto - damn - want twat. LOL
Uh.... that may be a bit personal.
damn it.. type o... but I think you got what I was going for. Sorry if it offended you.
Haha, you'd have to try harder to offend me. I just wanted to quote it for posterity.
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One thing I have noticed is that people who are Windows Admins -- that is the ones that grew up using Windows, and never dabbled with anything else don't tend to look for the overall best tool for what they want to do. They start from their default of using Windows and go from there.
I grew up being taught to always look for a better or different way of doing things. So when beginning a project, I look at the end goal, and then start searching for the best way to do the project, and learn what I need to learn to make the project a win. If that means building it around Windows, that's fine. If that means building it around Linux, that's fine too...
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@dafyre said:
One thing I have noticed is that people who are Windows Admins -- that is the ones that grew up using Windows, and never dabbled with anything else don't tend to look for the overall best tool for what they want to do. They start from their default of using Windows and go from there.
I grew up being taught to always look for a better or different way of doing things. So when beginning a project, I look at the end goal, and then start searching for the best way to do the project, and learn what I need to learn to make the project a win. If that means building it around Windows, that's fine. If that means building it around Linux, that's fine too...
Someone said something similar to me in private as well. The Windows world is so often "just do what you always have done, your comfort dictates what is done for the business rather than the business needs." Those of us that came from other backgrounds lack that. That's one advantage that IT used to have, before the late 1980s, you could not come from a Windows background, everyone had a varied background. Today there is this Windows monoculture in entry level low end shops that self perpetuates.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Today there is this Windows monoculture in entry level low end shops that self perpetuates.
I feel like sometimes it is up to us to help everybody take the Red Pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. They will be surprised that there's a whole other ecosystem out there... even if they wish they'd taken the Blue Pill.
If nothing else, we can expose the pure Windows Admins that we come across to the wonderful world of Linux and
teachencourage them to move out of their comfort zones. -
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Today there is this Windows monoculture in entry level low end shops that self perpetuates.
I feel like sometimes it is up to us to help everybody take the Red Pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. They will be surprised that there's a whole other ecosystem out there... even if they wish they'd taken the Blue Pill.
If nothing else, we can expose the pure Windows Admins that we come across to the wonderful world of Linux and
teach encourage them to move out of their comfort zones.take their jobs when they refuse to learn.FTFY
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@scottalanmiller I have avoided bad updates by waiting a week or two and googling the updates that show in my WSUS. If I worked with a team of people who only did help desk, I would be more willing to take the leap. That being said, I do have critical updates set to automatically download and install for all clients. Servers I do regularly and manually. Critical updates appear less often and are fewer in numbers compared with other updates that seem to cause the problems.
