A new way of parental control
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@IRJ said:
I have found on my website which receives 90% mobile traffic. That only about 20-30% of the devices are apple devices. The market is shifting towards android very fast. $50-100 devices are readily available for android. I would assume many parents would rather buy a $50-100 device than a $500 apple device. It's not like young kids don't understand technology these days.
Sure, but the market decision is about households, not devices. We are a six iOS family (four people) but are switching a few devices to Android. That will help bolster the Android numbers. But the household still has iOS. You are looking at a number that is slightly suggestive but not the market number driving the decision making. This is where metrics get dangerous - no matter how many devices Android has on the market, it's the adult household iOS penetration number for people interested in the product that matters.
In our household where we would not want this product, the kids are moving to Android but not the adults. A common thing, I think. I know lots of people doing this this year. To sell to us, the iOS decision would make sense and Android would not, even though we statistically support your theory. Does that make sense?
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@IRJ said:
@JaredBusch said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I don't feel that any of those factors are likely to be true. So why do you feel they would want to spend costly development resources making features only for an audience that they are not likely to have anyway? How many people would actually buy this based on such a feature and actually avoid it without it?
Many mobile apps are just glorified web browsers.. It seems like this easy enough to do.
Now, this is very true. And if that is all that the app does, then you would be right that there is no excuse.
Of course the app would need to scan the network for the device before connecting so it would automatically find the IP, but this seems easy enough to implement
Depends on the security, auditing, potential other features, etc. There is every reason to assume that it is nothing like this because this suggests that there is a web page on the device that we just can't find. It's safe to assume that that is not true.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
- This is only about time to market and they are not choosing to eschew any market, only focusing on the lowest cost, most important first.
Maybe if not lowest cost, wider market. I was under the impression that Android development & App store licensing was far cheaper than Apple / IOS?
Sure, but it is also fragmented. Getting into the Google Play store doesn't get you onto Fire devices and vice versa. Getting into Android is a lot of steps with a lot of vendors. And the cost of getting into the store is nothing compared to the cost of development - that's what they really care about. And they are doing it, it's all about prioritization, not choosing one over another.
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@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
- This is only about time to market and they are not choosing to eschew any market, only focusing on the lowest cost, most important first.
Maybe if not lowest cost, wider market. I was under the impression that Android development & App store licensing was far cheaper than Apple / IOS?
But so what? iPhone owners have already proven that they don't care about cost - they bought an iPhone. With that in mind they have proven they have the cash and are willing to spend it.
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
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I think that this thread would be good for a business class at college: Today's discussion: factors affecting the business decisions around time to market for a consumer product aimed at childrens' safety.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I think that this thread would be good for a business class at college: Today's discussion: factors affecting the business decisions around time to market for a consumer product aimed at childrens' safety.
How about a MangoCon session?
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Some high level topics to consider as to why the vendor chose the path that they did:
- Time to market
- Total cost of development
- Time to develop
- Cost of hardware
- Target demographic
- Cost for support
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@scottalanmiller said:
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
I'll contend that the iPhone and iPad are just a better user experience for most people.
For example, my uncle, wants to know where his bank app is on his Kindle Fire. Sorry, not there. Kind of like what @scottalanmiller was saying about developing for Apple first as opposed to getting into Google Play. They have limited resources, they are going to go where the money is.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I think that this thread would be good for a business class at college: Today's discussion: factors affecting the business decisions around time to market for a consumer product aimed at childrens' safety.
How about a MangoCon session?
I think that there might be one around thinking about IT in a business context.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
I'll contend that the iPhone and iPad are just a better user experience for most people.
For example, my uncle, wants to know where his bank app is on his Kindle Fire. Sorry, not there. Kind of like what @scottalanmiller was saying about developing for Apple first as opposed to getting into Google Play. They have limited resources, they are going to go where the money is.
And it is just about going there first, not that the Android devices aren't right around the corner. Something has to come first and the choice was to hold back the product until they felt "enough" was done or to get it out for one group of customers first and start making money right away.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@JaredBusch said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I don't feel that any of those factors are likely to be true. So why do you feel they would want to spend costly development resources making features only for an audience that they are not likely to have anyway? How many people would actually buy this based on such a feature and actually avoid it without it?
Many mobile apps are just glorified web browsers.. It seems like this easy enough to do.
Now, this is very true. And if that is all that the app does, then you would be right that there is no excuse.
Of course the app would need to scan the network for the device before connecting so it would automatically find the IP, but this seems easy enough to implement
Depends on the security, auditing, potential other features, etc. There is every reason to assume that it is nothing like this because this suggests that there is a web page on the device that we just can't find. It's safe to assume that that is not true.
Security on your own network? All you are doing is giving a device commands that is on your own network. It is not like anything you are sending needs to be encrypted. If somebody were to intercept data, they would already need to be on your own network. As you reminded me earlier, this is for consumers and not businesses. So it is doubtful any data should need to be protected.
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Well, sort of. Remember that this is specifically a device built around the concept that you have an enemy (your kids) inside with a reason to defeat the security. You want to be careful, of course, that this new device will not expose you to outside threats on its own but also that it will not be trivially defeated by the kids or they will lose all credibility and the product will be done.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
- This is only about time to market and they are not choosing to eschew any market, only focusing on the lowest cost, most important first.
Maybe if not lowest cost, wider market. I was under the impression that Android development & App store licensing was far cheaper than Apple / IOS?
Sure, but it is also fragmented. Getting into the Google Play store doesn't get you onto Fire devices and vice versa. Getting into Android is a lot of steps with a lot of vendors. And the cost of getting into the store is nothing compared to the cost of development - that's what they really care about. And they are doing it, it's all about prioritization, not choosing one over another.
Getting into the Play Store is so easy. Anybody with $25 can do it. Apple on the other hand is very selective. I have made android and apple apps so I have experience with both. Mine we basic ones built in a web browser. Nothing too fancy, but I would assume this would be something similar.
If you can control enterprise devices via the web, there is absolutely no reason, you can't control this device through a web interface.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
I'll contend that the iPhone and iPad are just a better user experience for most people.
For example, my uncle, wants to know where his bank app is on his Kindle Fire. Sorry, not there. Kind of like what @scottalanmiller was saying about developing for Apple first as opposed to getting into Google Play. They have limited resources, they are going to go where the money is.
I am really shocked how far behind you guys are in the mobile device industry. In the world where we toss our devices every year or two price is everything. People are starting to understand that you can get the same thing from Android at a fraction of the cost with even better hardware. The iPhone 4 was the last time Apple did anything absoultely ground breaking
http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-v-android-market-share-2014-5
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@scottalanmiller said:
Well, sort of. Remember that this is specifically a device built around the concept that you have an enemy (your kids) inside with a reason to defeat the security. You want to be careful, of course, that this new device will not expose you to outside threats on its own but also that it will not be trivially defeated by the kids or they will lose all credibility and the product will be done.
I wouldn't expect kids to intercept packages on their own network. If they can do that, they can easily defeat their parents in other ways.
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@IRJ said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
I'll contend that the iPhone and iPad are just a better user experience for most people.
For example, my uncle, wants to know where his bank app is on his Kindle Fire. Sorry, not there. Kind of like what @scottalanmiller was saying about developing for Apple first as opposed to getting into Google Play. They have limited resources, they are going to go where the money is.
I am really shocked how far behind you guys are in the mobile device industry. In the world where we toss our devices every year or two price is everything. People are starting to understand that you can get the same thing from Android at a fraction of the cost with even better hardware. The iPhone 4 was the last time Apple did anything absoultely ground breaking
http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-v-android-market-share-2014-5
I don't see this as behind at all. It's not as simple as "Android is great and iOS sucks." I've got Android devices here, they are the cheap crappy ones. Hardware aside, they don't match iOS at all. But they serve a purpose. Don't try to tell me that the Android world is clearly better, it's not how it works. That's only for fanboys. In the real world they are two different products with different user bases. I have both, and have a much higher price point I feel the iOS ones are delivering a higher value per dollar.
Why would we toss devices every year? Our iOS devices are completely usable for five years. No need to toss them.
I get what you are saying, but you are trying to say that iOS users are behind. And that's baloney. We can equal say that Android users are a lower class. Obviously not true, but the logic of one leads to the logic of the other.
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@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Well, sort of. Remember that this is specifically a device built around the concept that you have an enemy (your kids) inside with a reason to defeat the security. You want to be careful, of course, that this new device will not expose you to outside threats on its own but also that it will not be trivially defeated by the kids or they will lose all credibility and the product will be done.
I wouldn't expect kids to intercept packages on their own network. If they can do that, they can easily defeat their parents in other ways.
They CAN do that and are probably not and I suggested nothing of the sort. Packet captures are but one small means of attacking a network and not likely a very useful one in this case.
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@IRJ said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yup, people choosing Android because it is $50, good for kids that might break it and comes with lots of free apps are not good customers. People spending a high price to get what they perceive as a premium product are the customers that you are likely to really get. Apple customers either have more money to spend or are generally more willing to spend it than Android customers.
I'll contend that the iPhone and iPad are just a better user experience for most people.
For example, my uncle, wants to know where his bank app is on his Kindle Fire. Sorry, not there. Kind of like what @scottalanmiller was saying about developing for Apple first as opposed to getting into Google Play. They have limited resources, they are going to go where the money is.
I am really shocked how far behind you guys are in the mobile device industry. In the world where we toss our devices every year or two price is everything. People are starting to understand that you can get the same thing from Android at a fraction of the cost with even better hardware. The iPhone 4 was the last time Apple did anything absoultely ground breaking
http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-v-android-market-share-2014-5
You're experience is considerably different from my own.
Those around me, including the $11/hr workers around me mostly have iPhones. Sure, several of them have older iPhone 4's, but they are still iPhones.
I have seen very little conversion from iPhone to Android. And even those few that I have seen switch are definitely not switching for cheaper hardware, they've all bought things like Samsung Galaxy Notes in the $800 range.
Sure the third world is making huge purchases of Androids, but the influential are still mostly sticking to apple devices.
As I stated earlier 80%+ of all mobile online purchases made for black Friday came from an iDevice, even though they only have 15% of the sales volume of total phones sold.
Oh, and I think I read that that 15% of sales was still considerable more valuable than the entire other 85% combined, because iPhones cost so much more.
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@Dashrender this lines up with my experience. I don't see iOS declining. Maybe Android is increasing. We continued to buy iOS devices this year and, since they were so cheap, tossed in a handful of Android ones. But our "real" devices aren't going to Android... just four cheap, "toy" devices.
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I was surprised iPhone ownership was so low.
Almost everyone I know has an iPhone. Except the people who hate Apple, and the people who think their Android phone is so much cheaper when it really isn't, apples to apples. (No pun intended.)
When general users ask me, I almost always point them to an iPhone/iMac. As I said, I think it delivers the easiest/best experiences, which is what most people are looking for.
I'm not a huge Mac fan, and I think the PC is easier and much cheaper.
