NetDrive - Any One Used It?
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Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
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I am using it as a File Store right now. Anything critical enough for me to keep backed up gets tossed up into ACD.
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@garak0410 said:
Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
I use that and like it a lot.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@garak0410 said:
Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
I use that and like it a lot.
It is well worth the $60 a year.
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@dafyre Especially if you have a Fire TV!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre Especially if you have a Fire TV!
Or a VPS host that is capable of running Plex!
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
Use something like Sharepoint or Alfresco. Use the web interface instead of attaching it to WebDav (which is slightly safer then CIFS). Use actual programs (MS Office comes to mind) to open files instead of something like file explorer. These programs can directly access both Sharepoint and Alfresco without having to go through a mount. Even Confluence has an Office plugin that will allow it to directly access files stored on Confluence.
The problem I have with this method for opening files is searching for files. Sometimes you just don't remember if a file is a Word doc or an Excel sheet. If you're searching with Word, you'll never see the Excel sheets, etc.
I understand the safety gained, but damn you do give up a lot.
Do you give up a lot? You're thinking about searching in the context with file explorer... what about searching via a tagged infrastructure on a document management system? That would be 1000x easier then trying to use the built in windows search.
I agree, that a document manager would be easier, with tag. You were specifically talking about using the apps to find the documents in question.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
Use something like Sharepoint or Alfresco. Use the web interface instead of attaching it to WebDav (which is slightly safer then CIFS). Use actual programs (MS Office comes to mind) to open files instead of something like file explorer. These programs can directly access both Sharepoint and Alfresco without having to go through a mount. Even Confluence has an Office plugin that will allow it to directly access files stored on Confluence.
The problem I have with this method for opening files is searching for files. Sometimes you just don't remember if a file is a Word doc or an Excel sheet. If you're searching with Word, you'll never see the Excel sheets, etc.
I understand the safety gained, but damn you do give up a lot.
Do you give up a lot? You're thinking about searching in the context with file explorer... what about searching via a tagged infrastructure on a document management system? That would be 1000x easier then trying to use the built in windows search.
I agree, that a document manager would be easier, with tag. You were specifically talking about using the apps to find the documents in question.
The apps can do all of that stuff too. No reason that meta data would not carry through.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
Did I say that? Where? I think that that is an "in between" step. I'm talking about not using that at all, use the apps. If you need to manage documents, it's too complicated.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
Did I say that? Where? I think that that is an "in between" step. I'm talking about not using that at all, use the apps. If you need to manage documents, it's too complicated.
You didn't say use document manager that was Coliver when he was calling be out on giving up. But he was responding to my retort about using only the apps to find files you want/need to work on. Sure the other day you said the user has to take responsibility at some point, at the same time I say we as admins have to find ways to ensure they can find their files.
I think using apps is about the worst way to manage that, but at the same time I understand why it can be seen as better.
Perhaps the best option is the pure document management with tags setup. The user searches for what they want in the document management system, click and it launches the needed application.
We definitely should be able to say the user is a lot of responsibility here, but in the end that rarely works out, especially when the boss was SURE her file was a Word doc only for you to find that it was in fact an Excel sheet.
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it. Just look at posts here - Scott follows behind me and I'm sure countless others adding tags to our OPs so they are searchable later.
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@Dashrender said:
I think using apps is about the worst way to manage that, but at the same time I understand why it can be seen as better.
Well you either have to use files to manage the app or the app to manage the files or worse... make end users do both which is really rough.
What is the downside to the app approach?
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@Dashrender said:
Perhaps the best option is the pure document management with tags setup. The user searches for what they want in the document management system, click and it launches the needed application.
Why? That's extra work and exposing the "guts" to the end users. We want to make it simpler, not harder.
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@Dashrender said:
We definitely should be able to say the user is a lot of responsibility here, but in the end that rarely works out, especially when the boss was SURE her file was a Word doc only for you to find that it was in fact an Excel sheet.
One confused user should not define all workflows. The end user HAS TO take some responsibility. This is not an opinion, its just fact. It's not about being nice or whatever, it HAS TO BE. The only way to not have this be the case is to fire the end user and do the work ourselves.
If the end user can't remember the application, the filename, the location, the reason, why they are at work.... we can't help them. At least by starting from an app we have the most opportunity to find things by function. What do you want? Why do you want it?
That users need to think about files at all is too complicated.
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@Dashrender said:
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it.
I can't imagine having something like Sharepoint while disabling the tagging requirement. Would just lead to a mess.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it.
I can't imagine having something like Sharepoint while disabling the tagging requirement. Would just lead to a mess.
He's saying he wants a way to ENFORCE tagging, not disable it.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it.
I can't imagine having something like Sharepoint while disabling the tagging requirement. Would just lead to a mess.
He's saying he wants a way to ENFORCE tagging, not disable it.
It's standard to force in on Sharepoint. Not on by default, but standard. You'd effectively have to disable to not have it enforced.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think using apps is about the worst way to manage that, but at the same time I understand why it can be seen as better.
Well you either have to use files to manage the app or the app to manage the files or worse... make end users do both which is really rough.
What is the downside to the app approach?
Lost files because you're the wrong app.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it.
I can't imagine having something like Sharepoint while disabling the tagging requirement. Would just lead to a mess.
He's saying he wants a way to ENFORCE tagging, not disable it.
It's standard to force in on Sharepoint. Not on by default, but standard. You'd effectively have to disable to not have it enforced.
I could see it working much better for the end user to use something like SharePoint as their only means to accessing files. Then no apps matter. The correct app is choose when you launch the file you want. Also hopefully through something like SharePoint, you can force users to not use folder structure, instead everything is in one root folder. You want to find something.. you find it by tags.. or the file name.. not because you stuck it in xyz folder.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think using apps is about the worst way to manage that, but at the same time I understand why it can be seen as better.
Well you either have to use files to manage the app or the app to manage the files or worse... make end users do both which is really rough.
What is the downside to the app approach?
Lost files because you're the wrong app.
But outside of that one woman, one time does anyone actually run into this problem? And, more importantly, doesn't it introduce lots of other problems? Remembering EVERY file rather than every app seems insane. You would need to know hundreds of things instead of a handful. If she can't remember the app but can remember the file, maybe that is because she has too many things to remember.
Since she couldn't remember if it was a letter or a spreadsheet... how did she find it in the end anyway?
