Rapid Desktop Replacement
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@scottalanmiller said:
Drivers are trivial.
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Uninstalling HP's bloatware takes about 10 minutes, if that.
Now if I was doing a re-install, I'd probably use a clean version of Windows, rather than the HP recovery media. But the fact that the PCs comes pre-installed out of the box means sticking with this and not doing a clean install when I purchase the PC is faster. You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
Tip here, if you go to device manager and click on any device. Go into properties --> Details --> Select Hardware ID's. This will give you VEN and DEV numbers. Go to pcidatabase.com and put either number in and it will tell you the manufacturer and device, helps me a lot when I'm not sure what driver to get.
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Thanks. I think that will help.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Well, let me put it another way, drivers are the same amount of work either way because I need the updated ones. So using the OEM disc or the VL disc I still need to get the updated and selected drivers and the difference between the two processes is trivial.
But the overall work, let's say I have an HP desktop, I just go to HP's site, go to the page for that machine, select the OS from a dropdown and download the latest versions of the drivers again and store them in a folder on a USB stick.
When I install the desktop from VL standard image (even if vanilla) I just pop in that USB stick and click on the drivers, they install themselves.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
Nothing wrong with getting both if you don't know. Having extra drivers isn't bad, they will just be unused. One or two extra will do nothing. Thousands of extra would use of disk space, but keep in mind your generic image installs many thousands of drivers as it is for things you do not have, a handful extra would not even be noticed. So no harm done if you get two NIC drivers instead of one. And doing it a few times you would figure out which one is needed naturally (the one that turns on the network after doing it) and if you have more than one of the same desktop you might need both anyway as they might vary between the models that you have.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Lenovo specifically we've gotten tainted drivers from and is actually a great example of why even vendor-installed bloatware or malware may not be removable. Because of Lenovo we are so much more wary (remember they got caught twice using their OEM installs to potentially spy on customers and steal data) of using the OEM discs.
But in both cases, you would want the updated, patched drivers (whether OEM, hardware vendor or MS direct) rather than what comes on the discs.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
One thing is that bloatware removal is an "everytime" activity and driver download is a one time. Another is that one requires the storage and management of individual discs. The other does not. Even if you have a good system for that, it becomes cumbersome over time.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
But you...
- Need to do it anyway or your machines are unpatched and..
- It's a one time activity in the background rather than while someone is waiting on a PC to have bloatware removed.
So the download time isn't a factor unless you didn't prepare for installs and even then, it's only on the first one, right?
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@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
Per company.
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That's why I said that the price for a full company is just $120. It is so low, only a single person business would not do it automatically. It literally borders on the crazy for companies of any size to even contemplate any other option.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That's why I said that the price for a full company is just $120. It is so low, only a single person business would not do it automatically. It literally borders on the crazy for companies of any size to even contemplate any other option.
Now I think the levels of MS licensing have me confused again.
What is VL exactly?
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VL = Volume Licensing
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Honestly, something I would recommend is:
If you are going to use Windows, stick with Microsoft recommended approaches, practices, tools and ecosystem.
That includes things like moving to VL licensing, getting Office 365 for those features, etc. If you are paying the MS premium and trying to avoid the things that make it valuable you will normally lose, big time. It's one of those bizarre things where people assume that they need to have Windows but often don't want to trust their chosen vendor and go off doing their own thing and getting less than negligible value from the platform.
Similarly, if you don't want to use all HP or Dell parts, why did you buy servers and services that are a cost premium and all inclusive? Go with SuperMicro, part out your systems and save the money if you are not going to get the value of the ecosystems.
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That means, for example, with only rare exception if you are above 15 users (and/or desktops) that you use Active Directory, as an example.
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No, I get what you are saying.
We have AD, but we've had it for 10+ years and it originated from when we were a 60+ person company.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
This is not the whole picture.
Sure Software Assurance for one workstation is $120, but if you don't have a pre existing VL agreement, it's not just $120 to get into one, or keep it going once you're in.
You have to buy at least 5 Open Value licenses to start a Volume License Agreement. To get into this with the lowest spend that would be 4 Windows Server CALs without Software Assurance ($75/ea) and 1 Workstation Software Assurance license ($120).
So the bare minimum to get started is $420, and this is good for 3 years, then you have to renew, for roughly the same cost.
Also, you can only purchase Workstation SA for computer that you acquired in the last 90 days. So if it's been more than 90 days, you would have to purchase a Workstation upgrade with Software Assurance for $115/yr from CDW or $345 for 3 years, though the renewal will be at the above stated $120 for 3 years.
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@Dashrender said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
This is not the whole picture.
Sure Software Assurance for one workstation is $120, but if you don't have a pre existing VL agreement, it's not just $120 to get into one, or keep it going once you're in.
You have to buy at least 5 Open Value licenses to start a Volume License Agreement. To get into this with the lowest spend that would be 4 Windows Server CALs without Software Assurance ($75/ea) and 1 Workstation Software Assurance license ($120).
So the bare minimum to get started is $420, and this is good for 3 years, then you have to renew, for roughly the same cost.
Also, you can only purchase Workstation SA for computer that you acquired in the last 90 days. So if it's been more than 90 days, you would have to purchase a Workstation upgrade with Software Assurance for $115/yr from CDW or $345 for 3 years, though the renewal will be at the above stated $120 for 3 years.
You don't need SA, though, only a VL for Windows. SA is not necessary.
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Looks like I need to start another WINDOWS LICENSING thread.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Drivers are trivial.
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Uninstalling HP's bloatware takes about 10 minutes, if that.
Now if I was doing a re-install, I'd probably use a clean version of Windows, rather than the HP recovery media. But the fact that the PCs comes pre-installed out of the box means sticking with this and not doing a clean install when I purchase the PC is faster. You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
HP and Dell both have driver packs. Dells are better though IMO with driver packs.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ads/clientmanagement/drivers-pack.html
