Millennial generation
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@Dashrender said:
@art_of_shred said:
It's not that anyone "doesn't deserve" health care.
Oh but it is. You don't deserve a cell phone, you don't deserve a car, you don't even deserve a house or apt, or hell clothing or food. You definitely don't deserve health care.
All of these things come at a cost, you should should have to pony up for them, including health care. Now, that said, there has always been since the beginning the desire of some to help those less fortunate than themselves. These charities are what should be helping those who can't help themselves, not the government stealing our money to give to the have nots.
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
I don't have any numbers, but I've read in the past that as our taxes lower, people in general are more philanthropic, and they will give to the charities, and those charities can help the less fortunate. This situation is superior to our current one because the charities themselves want to see people get back on their feet, there is no power in them keeping people dependent upon them. Unlike the government, where now that people get money from the government, the people will continue to vote people into power that continue to give them their free money.
Kinda like the signs at the park that say don't feed the wildlife...
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@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
Stop giving money to NGOs!!!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
Stop giving money to NGOs!!!
LOL - but that doesn't help the poor, that only helps those being ripped off by the NGOs
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@Dashrender said:
LOL - but that doesn't help the poor, that only helps those being ripped off by the NGOs
Not according to a lot of people, it actually does help the poor. A great book to read that deals with how the poor are kept poor by NGOs is "Dark Star Safari." It's a travelogue but by a guy who hangs out with prime ministers and worked for NGOs and observes NGOs being used to keep corrupt governments rich and the poor really poor.
In theory, even NGOs that try to go good, might be part of the problem, not the solution.
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@Dashrender said:
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Heck they are starting programs now to give cell phones & service, internet connections (20Meg min download speed connections is there goal) and a new laptop to anyone on welfare in VA. They say these items are a necessity to life now, and they shouldn't go without it just because they can't afford it.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Heck they are starting programs now to give cell phones & service, internet connections (20Meg min download speed connections is there goal) and a new laptop to anyone on welfare in VA. They say these items are a necessity to life now, and they shouldn't go without it just because they can't afford it.
Thanks for making my point
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@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
Well, we that discussion the other day too. Did we ever agree on a good style that doesn't suffer from long term corruption? or even short term?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
Well, we that discussion the other day too. Did we ever agree on a good style that doesn't suffer from long term corruption? or even short term?
Power corrupts. But democracy has the fewest social checks and balances of any form.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Power corrupts. But democracy has the fewest social checks and balances of any form.
Dictatorship has no checks. Well, that is unless you take your gun and kill the dictator...
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Dictatorship has no checks. Well, that is unless you take your gun an kill the dictator...
It has strong social checks. Democracy has none. A dictator doing evil is seen as a failure by his people and by the world. A democracy doing evil has no one to blame or take responsibility. The social checks that exist for every form are lost with democracy, it is the only governmental form designed to remove all guilt from anyone, no matter how horrible of a decision that they make.
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Yes, but short of the gun from @thecreativeone91 how do you remove a dictator?
At least with a democracy you can vote people out. Sure it doesn't happen because people are in general lazy and can't be bothered to get involved..
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@Dashrender said:
Yes, but short of the gun from @thecreativeone91 how do you remove a dictator?
Hitler, Case in point. He was even able to manipulate his people into thinking he was good, and he was helping them. Protecting them from the enemy that's trying to come hurt them. Sound familiar?
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@thecreativeone91 I hate quoting the man, but he wasn't wrong - just a war criminal
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials -
@thecreativeone91 said:
Hitler, Case in point. He was even able to manipulate his people into thinking he was good, and he was helping them. Protecting them from the enemy that's trying to come hurt them. Sound familiar?
Well, he was only a dictator for a little bit and even then only kind of. Remember he was voted in via party politics. That was a country just coming out of a stable monarchy and floundering with democracy while being occupied. Doesn't make for a good example. They were only not an acting democracy during a war, never while peaceful.
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@MattSpeller said:
@thecreativeone91 I hate quoting the man, but he wasn't wrong - just a war criminal
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trialsJust remember, the leaders of a democracy are the poor. They choose the people on top.
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@Dashrender said:
Yes, but short of the gun from @thecreativeone91 how do you remove a dictator?
How do you remove the voters?
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@Dashrender said:
At least with a democracy you can vote people out.
No, you can't, because you are thinking of the person in power as the president, but the person in power is the polis. You can't vote out the polis. The polis is the group dictator, but without the social obligations or even the ability to assassinate!
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It's a weird time to be alive.
Netflix may be cheaper than cable, and "unlimited minutes" is standard for cell phones instead of being an unbelievable sales pitch nowadays, but a 15 minute ambulance ride can cost $1770 versus $0 thirty years ago.
For me it's not about whether or not we're "entitled" to receive healthcare or whatever. When a large part of my income goes directly to our defense budget in order to build tanks we don't need and ensure other nations don't ruin our lives, I'm left wondering why we can't collectively scrounge up enough to make sure an ambulance ride or getting a bachelor's degree can't do the same thing to someone living paycheck to paycheck.
I'm hoping that 10 years from now, there will either be major changes to the healthcare and educational systems in America or I will be an expat. It doesn't seem right for me to raise my children in one of the few developed countries where either one of these necessities can financially decimate them.
