Application Lifecycle Management
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NTG tried FogBugz long ago. Found it to be severely lacking and we returned it.
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FogBugz is better now than it used to be, but compared to other tools out there it can be lacking, a lot of people seem to do well with it. Joel Spolsky seems to make a lot of money from it, devious, lucky bastard
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It would have to be, it was pretty rough. And wasn't available for any enterprise OS except Windows (where you would need a license for no reason.) It was written in VBScript and would run on hobby UNIX OSes but no enterprise Linux OS. It was ridiculous. We guessed that they had no idea how software was made, how to write it or what good looks like. So we threw in the tower. Really, from having read about how the product was made, we should never have auditioned it. Not meant for business use, very much just a hobbyist toy from how they approached it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
It would have to be, it was pretty rough. And wasn't available for any enterprise OS except Windows (where you would need a license for no reason.) It was written in VBScript and would run on hobby UNIX OSes but no enterprise Linux OS. It was ridiculous. We guessed that they had no idea how software was made, how to write it or what good looks like. So we threw in the tower. Really, from having read about how the product was made, we should never have auditioned it. Not meant for business use, very much just a hobbyist toy from how they approached it.
Well, now it's written in a sort of pseudo-VBScript called Wasabi, with all sorts of additions and it actually transpiles into other languages (such as PHP) so it can run on other OSes, it's pretty nutty, though in the last couple of years Fogcreek has tried to move it all to hosted.
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@tonyshowoff They'd have to go to hosted. That stuff is so complex and crazy. It's such a fragile design. And made from the worst starting point. Why would anyone put so much effort into writing compilers to good languages just so that they could write code in awful languages?
VBscript cross compiling to PHP? Isn't PHP way better to write?
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@StrongBad said:
@tonyshowoff They'd have to go to hosted. That stuff is so complex and crazy. It's such a fragile design. And made from the worst starting point. Why would anyone put so much effort into writing compilers to good languages just so that they could write code in awful languages?
VBscript cross compiling to PHP? Isn't PHP way better to write?
I honestly have no idea, rewriting it in PHP would've achieved the same level of cross-platform, but in 2004 or so when they did this, PHP wasn't seen as powerful enough, though I guess that's more than ironic because it wasn't power enough to write first hand, but powerful enough to transpile into. Joel Spolsky, though, is way into Microsoft and such, he helped create our friend VBA, and that's probably why.
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Was VBScript mature enough but not PHP? That seems unlikely.
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VBScript was "old", but mature?
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@StrongBad said:
Was VBScript mature enough but not PHP? That seems unlikely.
VBScript is just garbage no matter what, but even now, but especially at that time, PHP was considered the worst of the worst, and using anything but it is a good thing. I also think it had something to do with wanting to make it to where the people primarily working on FogBugz didn't have to learn a new language, even though it clearly would've been in their best interest.
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I think that I would start with Jira. Jira has some very low cost options for small teams and some free stuff to get you started with testing.
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I think this image gives us a clear idea on which product to use at what stage!
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Basically the entire Atlassian ecosystem. Hard to go wrong there.
I like the JetBrains IDEs over Eclipse, though, personally.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Basically the entire Atlassian ecosystem. Hard to go wrong there.
I like the JetBrains IDEs over Eclipse, though, personally.
I honestly don't know how anyone could not like JetBrains stuff over Eclipse, then again I see people arguing for Notepad++ over PhpStorm and WebStorm from time to time, bitching about how "they don't work.." I think it's just safer to say "you don't know what you're doing."
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I am discussing with management soon, to get Jira products! Team size is big around 100, so convincing them for the purchase would be tough!
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@tonyshowoff said:
I honestly don't know how anyone could not like JetBrains stuff over Eclipse, then again I see people arguing for Notepad++ over PhpStorm and WebStorm from time to time, bitching about how "they don't work.." I think it's just safer to say "you don't know what you're doing."
I love Notepad++, but I would never recommend it as an IDE. It is a great Notepad replacement and I have it on all Windows machines I use. It is certainly not an IDE in my opinion.
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@Ambarishrh said:
I am discussing with management soon, to get Jira products! Team size is big around 100, so convincing them for the purchase would be tough!
Not so cheap at that size, but at that size the value is much higher.
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@JaredBusch said:
@tonyshowoff said:
I honestly don't know how anyone could not like JetBrains stuff over Eclipse, then again I see people arguing for Notepad++ over PhpStorm and WebStorm from time to time, bitching about how "they don't work.." I think it's just safer to say "you don't know what you're doing."
I love Notepad++, but I would never recommend it as an IDE. It is a great Notepad replacement and I have it on all Windows machines I use. It is certainly not an IDE in my opinion.
You'd be surprised how many people use Notepad++, TexMate, Sublime and not Atom for their IDE replacements. Some, like Notepad++ and Atom are free so I can see people taking the cheap route. But Sublime blows my mind, it costs nearly as much as tools from JetBrains!!
The only time that I see Notepad++ or Atom making tons of sense is when working on a language that you use rarely so getting a full IDE isn't important. Or maybe for learning so you don't have to learn the IDE too.
Atom is made by GitHub, so really focused on software development specifically.
