Phones new location
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We are looking to consolidate three of our small locations into a single new location. This new location appears to need 22 endpoint phones.
What would you guys consider deploying?
Currently my main office has a Mitel 5000 supporting 38 VOIP phones, and a connection to an old (recently EOL) digital Intertel system with around 60 phones.
The consolidated locations have a very Avaya we'll retire, another has two POTS line, and the last has a still serviceable Intertel digital system that needs all new phones (currently using Excutone phones).
We've received quotes from our Mitel vendor to upgrade the old Intertel digital system, just the brain part, while allowing us to continue to use the old digital handsets.
I've considered moving us completely to something like FreePBX or Asterisk. The problem is that replacing the phones alone costs more than the upgrade to our current Intertel system. This does not include the replacement cabling that would need to be done. I know some have mentioned some type of device I could possibly use to prevent having to run new cabling, but I'm just not liking that. Of course additionally if I go VOIP everywhere, I'll need more switch ports and probably go straight to POE ports so I don't have to deal with power bricks.
This is quickly making moving to a 'free' solution not so cost effective.
Now, If I consider the new location and it's need for 22 more phones - it might tip the balance in the Open Source direction.
Should I consider running all phones from my location? Will I need a VPN or dedicated connection between my locations to provide phone services?
Administration hasn't even considered networking/connectivity for this new location at all. I might even need to consider a server install at that location with DFS to sync shared drives (not sure how that will work, never done it before).
Lots to consider. Thoughts?
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@Dashrender said:
Should I consider running all phones from my location? Will I need a VPN or dedicated connection between my locations to provide phone services?
Assuming you have enough bandwidth, that's a fine option. Think about 128Kbps per line in use in both directions. Worse case with all of the folks on the horn all day, plan for an ~5Mbps upload, to allow for overhead and people using the line for other things.
Framing up two commodity pipes through a Peplink which terminate an IPSec tunnel to your location would be cheap and effective. Just have to spin up new extensions and such. And it could be very simple assuming these folks don't need a DID or something like that. Otherwise plan to port in your existing numbers and play reassignment of extensions.
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OK that seems to answer supporting everything from a single location.
What is a Peplink?
Luckily none of the branch locations use any sort of extension setup (don't ask me why) so nothing import there, but needless to say we'll be assigning new extensions to the new phones in the new building.
We do have phone numbers for those locations, and we might hang onto them for a bit, but then again, maybe not, and simply put a LEC message saying we have a new number and point them to our master number.
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The problem with upgrading the old system is that every penny that you spend goes into technical debt. You are investing in a system that is already antiquated and you know will just cost more and more to support over time. So that is not a good place for money to go. It is money "lost" completely, even though it holds off the larger cost of a migration. This is rarely a wise financial move.
Since you know that you need to move to a modern phone system eventually, that is a cost that is going to happen one way or another. Pushing it off does have advantages, but few. You are not avoiding a cost, just postponing it - but paying to postpone it. And the longer you hold off the longer you have to keep supporting the crazy old system and deal with the lack of features.
Get the new system now and get the benefits immediately and reduce the total amount of cost between now and the eventual migration. Less work overall, probably less money overall, and the most features the soonest.
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@Dashrender it comes down to hard numbers. Without having access to your locations, all I can do is guesstimate.
The main office is on a Mitel system that works fine. Leave it alone.
For the branches, they should all be consolidated on a VoIP solution, or not touched. There really is no in between on this thought.
Assuming you move them VoIP, the best method comes down to numbers as mentioned above.
What I would do is host a PBX (Asterisk is my personal preference). You can host it yourself or pay for hosting someplace, that is up to you and should be considered as part of your business continuity planning.
You will have 22 devices. That is a single 24 port PoE switch that will be used for both the phones and the computers behind them because the phones have pass through.
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You can do extensions for free with SIP softphones. Or you can get hard phones down around $80 if you need to cut costs. Far from free, but it doesn't have to be a crazy investment either.
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You also can go phone free where you can and spend less on headsets and do softphones.
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@scottalanmiller said:
You can do extensions for free with SIP softphones.
This is false. I hate people that state this.
This is only free IF the device running the softphone has both a microphone and speakers. many office computers do not have this and headset have to be purchased.
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Why would you have to run new cabling? Do people not have computers? What's making you want to run new cabling?
Nothing wrong with new cables, but that, I assume, is purely something that you "want" and not something that you need. So don't include that in your cost comparison of the two systems as that is purely misleading. It's not a part of the new system at all and is just a separate cabling plant upgrade that you are looking to add in. That's fine, but you can't put it in the "cons" column of the VoIP system.
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@Dashrender Quality headsets will run you $50
Cheap desk phones will run you $80 or less. They will only have 100mbit pass through
Decent desk phones with gigabit pass through will run you $100-$120
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PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
If PoE and new cables were not possible, you'd still want VoIP. If those things make it too expensive, then it is those features that you have ruled out, not VoIP itself.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The problem with upgrading the old system is that every penny that you spend goes into technical debt. You are investing in a system that is already antiquated and you know will just cost more and more to support over time. So that is not a good place for money to go. It is money "lost" completely, even though it holds off the larger cost of a migration. This is rarely a wise financial move.
The only part of the current system in our main location that is EOF is the brain. The InterTel digital handsets and the backplane that supports them is all currently still supported.
That said, I definitely understand where you are going here.
Get the new system now and get the benefits immediately and reduce the total amount of cost between now and the eventual migration. Less work overall, probably less money overall, and the most features the soonest.
I agree that long term assuming we went VOIP this would be a savings in the long run. As for features - the only feature that we know of that we don't currently have that we want is reporting. The vendor wants something like $6500 for the reporting package. It's my understanding that I can get nearly any type of reports out I want free with Asterisk.
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@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
Fewer phone models are shipping with power adapters. For example the Yealink T3X series does, but the newer (better IMO) T4X series does not.
This means you need to think about the cost of 22 power adapters. that is $220. That is the cost difference from a non-PoE switch to a PoE switch.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
Fewer phone models are shipping with power adapters. For example the Yealink T3X series does, but the newer (better IMO) T4X series does not.
This means you need to think about the cost of 22 power adapters. that is $220. That is the cost difference from a non-PoE switch to a PoE switch.
The cheaper phones still have the bricks. There are lots that still come with bricks.
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@scottalanmiller said:
You can do extensions for free with SIP softphones. Or you can get hard phones down around $80 if you need to cut costs. Far from free, but it doesn't have to be a crazy investment either.
While this is good for mobile workers, I don't consider it best practice for office workers (though I'll admit it's a personal bias). The cost of the phones for the new location won't kill us.
It's only when I compare buying all new phones for the old location that it becomes an issue, and there is no way we'd deploy softphones in that environment with rare exception.
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@Dashrender said:
The only part of the current system in our main location that is EOF is the brain. The InterTel digital handsets and the backplane that supports them is all currently still supported.
That said, I definitely understand where you are going here.
Good that it is still supported. But it is still a 1990s phone system. It's a dramatically outdated technology stack.
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@Dashrender said:
I agree that long term assuming we went VOIP this would be a savings in the long run. As for features - the only feature that we know of that we don't currently have that we want is reporting. The vendor wants something like $6500 for the reporting package. It's my understanding that I can get nearly any type of reports out I want free with Asterisk.
It's open, so you can pull anything that you want out of it. Anything. Reporting isn't built in, but nothing stops you from getting reports out of the logs. Or you can add reporting packages to it. Or make your own. Sky is the limit.
You might find that there are a lot of features that you want once you know what modern phone systems can do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Why would you have to run new cabling? Do people not have computers? What's making you want to run new cabling?
Nothing wrong with new cables, but that, I assume, is purely something that you "want" and not something that you need. So don't include that in your cost comparison of the two systems as that is purely misleading. It's not a part of the new system at all and is just a separate cabling plant upgrade that you are looking to add in. That's fine, but you can't put it in the "cons" column of the VoIP system.
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
Speaking of 100 vs 1000 - we simply don't need 1000 to the endpoint, except for the x-ray equipment. So using the less expensive $80 phones should be fine.
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@scottalanmiller said:
PoE is not an inherent cost of VoIP either. Great to do, just don't roll it into the decision matrix as it is purely a nice, cabling plant upgrade that you are wanting to do separately from the decision process.
If PoE and new cables were not possible, you'd still want VoIP. If those things make it too expensive, then it is those features that you have ruled out, not VoIP itself.
Ok, since the Yealink's I was looking at before all came with power bricks, I suppose we could get away from the POE being a requirement, but then we'd have to put in UPSs in the places where phones must work even when there is a power outage.
Plus I'll want POE for my wireless network we'll be putting in as well.
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@Dashrender said:
About half the phones hang on the wall with CAT3 wiring, not CAT 5 - those would need to be upgraded. The other half could plug between the PC and the wall like our current VOIP setup.
Yes, if you have non-PC location phones new cable would be needed. That's a pain
