Women and Raises



  • Microsoft CEO takes some heat for saying that women should not ask for raises but trust in karma.



  • I have not made it through the article yet, but in fairness, I would often advice anyone to avoid asking for raises. Everyone should sometimes, but mostly it should be avoided. In the enterprise space, asking for raises is rare.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    In the enterprise space, asking for raises is rare.

    I agree, but only because in the Enterprise space everything is formalized.

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    I have not made it through the article yet, but in fairness, I would often advice anyone to avoid asking for raises. Everyone should sometimes, but mostly it should be avoided. In the enterprise space, asking for raises is rare.

    You obviously weren't at @pchiodo 's SW session.



  • @ajstringham said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    I have not made it through the article yet, but in fairness, I would often advice anyone to avoid asking for raises. Everyone should sometimes, but mostly it should be avoided. In the enterprise space, asking for raises is rare.

    You obviously weren't at @pchiodo 's SW session.

    He's not working in the enterprise.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    In the last enterprise gig I worked, there were no raises, all that could be done was secure a promotion.



  • @Katie said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    In the last enterprise gig I worked, there were no raises, all that could be done was secure a promotion.

    What about cost of living adjustments?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    What do you mean by formal?



  • @Dashrender said:

    What about cost of living adjustments?

    Nope. Non-existent. I have NEVER, in any job I've held, received a "cost of living" increase.



  • @Katie said:

    @Dashrender said:

    What about cost of living adjustments?

    Nope. Non-existent. I have NEVER, in any job I've held, received a "cost of living" increase.

    Well I haven't either - they always just call it a raise. But if you go a year without any change in pay, you're actually taking a paycut.

    I know a lot of places that used to have 5% standard pay raises. Some of those places had an annual review where the manager rated you, and based on your score versus the total possible points, you'd get that percentage of the 5%.

    Though a lot of places I'm aware of also lowed that 5 to 3 and in some cases to 1%.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    What do you mean by formal?

    They are built in. There is a review process that is never skipped and everyone goes through the same evaluations for raises and you generally get cost of living and consideration for more on top of there being the very real possibility of promotion which also is rare in the SMB.



  • @Katie said:

    Nope. Non-existent. I have NEVER, in any job I've held, received a "cost of living" increase.

    Not sure that I have either.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @Katie said:

    @Dashrender said:

    What about cost of living adjustments?

    Nope. Non-existent. I have NEVER, in any job I've held, received a "cost of living" increase.

    Well I haven't either - they always just call it a raise. But if you go a year without any change in pay, you're actually taking a paycut.

    I know a lot of places that used to have 5% standard pay raises. Some of those places had an annual review where the manager rated you, and based on your score versus the total possible points, you'd get that percentage of the 5%.

    Though a lot of places I'm aware of also lowed that 5 to 3 and in some cases to 1%.

    An annual set raise is a cost of living raise, that is what that term refers to.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    What do you mean by formal?

    In February, the big V puts in their performance reviews and lines up our raises for the next year. A month later, bonuses are established based on what our raises were.

    Formality, when you know when something is gonna happen.



  • Heck even in a lot of SMB jobs asking for a raise is asking for them to show you the door. I think a lot of times anymore raises only come by COLA or by getting a new job.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    While in many of the SMB I have worked at, the owners did not give dick until asked/forced by the employee.

    In the enterprise, raises are formal. In the SMB, raises are from moving between companies.

    What do you mean by formal?

    They are built in. There is a review process that is never skipped and everyone goes through the same evaluations for raises and you generally get cost of living and consideration for more on top of there being the very real possibility of promotion which also is rare in the SMB.

    Every where I have worked we got reviews but as long as you did good on it you got COLA no other incentives or performance based increases. and everyone got the same percentage increase with COLA.



  • @thecreativeone91 said:

    Heck even in a lot of SMB jobs asking for a raise is asking for them to show you the door. I think a lot of times anymore raises only come by COLA or by getting a new job.

    Yes, asking for a raise, especially in an SMB, is very often a trigger for bad things. It implies a disconnect between your expectations and theirs. Once you have to ask for a raise, you are set the wheels in motion for things to end. Might take a while, but that thought is in play. Asking for a raise means that you both know that you don't agree on the overall value of things and it suggests that it might get worse, not better (but does not actually mean that.)

    There are definitely cases where asking for a raise makes sense. But on average, I don't believe that they do.



  • @scottalanmiller My jaw dropped when I heard that guy say that. Why does he still have a job? If it were any place else people would be calling for his head!



  • @Bill-Kindle said:

    @scottalanmiller My jaw dropped when I heard that guy say that. Why does he still have a job? If it were any place else people would be calling for his head!

    Well he is the CEO, only the board can call for his replacement. But the question is... are people upset because he gave good advice, or bad advice. Lots of people are upset, but I've not heard any that were upset for very good reasons.

    The one thing that was bad is that he singled out women to discuss. However how men and women are treated in business does vary, so having advice on a gender by gender basis is normally required. Women give "women only" advice all of the time. Are we equally upset with them?



  • @scottalanmiller You speak blashphemy! 😉

    In the era of ousting people for stupid comments I'm just surprised it hasn't happened to him yet. There's a movement out there to keep people thinking that they are being oppressed every waking moment of every day. Nursing for example is a female dominated role just as IT is a male dominated one. I just don't hear of male nurses saying they are being mistreated or under paid.



  • @Bill-Kindle said:

    I just don't hear of male nurses saying they are being mistreated or under paid.

    Do men every complain about that? One of the often noted differences is in how the genders react to inequality. Men are noted for fighting more strongly and changing jobs or taking strong action when issues are noted. It's often shown that it is believed that a big piece of the inequality comes from the reaction to issues.

    For example, if women normally ask for raises and poison the well but stay, and men normally wait to see if they get raises and take a lateral move to another firm with a big raise instead, we get the inequality potential through normal but response.



  • @Bill-Kindle said:

    @scottalanmiller You speak blashphemy! 😉

    In the era of ousting people for stupid comments I'm just surprised it hasn't happened to him yet. There's a movement out there to keep people thinking that they are being oppressed every waking moment of every day. Nursing for example is a female dominated role just as IT is a male dominated one. I just don't hear of male nurses saying they are being mistreated or under paid.

    Part of it is just them saying it is why the are paid lower just because they can. Most men & women I know who are in the same field make about the same, heck I even know a few girls with less experience who make more than men.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    Yes, asking for a raise, especially in an SMB, is very often a trigger for bad things. It implies a disconnect between your expectations and theirs. Once you have to ask for a raise, you are set the wheels in motion for things to end. Might take a while, but that thought is in play. Asking for a raise means that you both know that you don't agree on the overall value of things and it suggests that it might get worse, not better (but does not actually mean that.)

    I've always asked for raises when I've felt I deserved them, and I've always got them. I've never just expected them to happen without my prompting. My bosses have no idea how much I'm worth, and frankly, neither do I. From time to time I might research the market and conclude I'm a little underpaid and that's when I'll let them know. They will then also research the market and hopefully come to the same conclusions. Then we'll both agree that I deserve a raise. There is no disconnect and no disagreement.

    Some of my colleagues have never asked for a raise and instead bitch and whine about how underpaid they are. My view is, don't ask, don't get. Or as they say in the North-East of England, "shy bairns get nowt".



  • @Bill-Kindle said:

    @scottalanmiller My jaw dropped when I heard that guy say that. Why does he still have a job? If it were any place else people would be calling for his head!

    I find this one of those annoying examples where because someone is an expert in one field (running an IT company) they are asked for their opinion on another field (HR). The guy clearly hasn't a clue on whether or not women should ask for a raise, not least because he's not a woman and it's been a very long time since he was in a normal job. He knows about as much as me, but no-one would ever ask my opinion, or take my answer in the least bit seriously.

    When "business leaders" are asked questions like this I wish they'd just answer "No idea - not my field. Why don't you ask an expert?"

    I find it part of the culture where we worship the rich and powerful and seek their opinion on everything and I hate it.


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