Why I Choose LibreOffice
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@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller I am sure that a large percentage of organizations that use MS office would get by peachy without it. It might just be a culture thing to expect MS office in a business because no one really evaluates things. I know there are always exceptions.
Once upon a time, it was a running joke to move people to StarOffice and see if they noticed. I knew someone whose clients didn't realize, at all. And another that thought that it was just a standard upgrade. And that was around 2000!
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@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
Same here for customers on MS Office. Reinstalling Office and/or Windows + Office is a major time sink. Especially when customers are small and can't do imaging options.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
That’s a lot of reinstalls. Something must messing with the office apps? Antivirus?
Yeah I totally agree but not sure what the problem is. My boss handles such things as antivirus. We run Forefront.
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@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
In reality, LO handles MSO formatting pretty well. Far better than people give it credit for. Even if we were in a situation where we needed to do it, it would likely not matter.
I use a combination of Zoho and LibreOffice myself. More Zoho to be honest. It's like 60-40. I could use either exclusively though. I can't remember the last time, if ever, that I had trouble with formatting so I totally agree with this as well based on my experiences. There are always exceptions of course as there will be some user that has trouble. However, I have never had an Excel sheet or anything else that LibreOffice did not handle. I see no speed difference either. So maybe in cases where people have trouble there are other circumstances not mentioned or things happening they are not aware of.
Same here, I use Zoho for some things (historical reasoning) and LO for almost everything else. I have no access to MSO. I get files, once in a while, in MSO, but I can't remember the last time that there was a formatting problem. I'd guess not for ten years or more. Not to say that it is exact, but it's a Word doc, it's not meant to be exact, it's a collaboration format.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
That’s a lot of reinstalls. Something must messing with the office apps? Antivirus?
I can see where AV can cause issues,.. but some times I wonder if it's not all the layers and layers of security. MS, with Azure and hybrid configurations with SSO and 2FA or MFA adds quite a bit of additional steps.
My office; the State; using SSO for a number of things - which is great - and very much NOT. Damn near every aspect of access is attached to the AD account. I believe there are a total of five different NON MS based systems that use AD - the only one that doesn't - Mainframe - and well - it's Mainframe.
To make matter worse is the password / time policy that restricts the type of passwords you can have. And - the additional kick ( which many have when you have in office and WFH staff ) de-sync of the passwords from the device and the domain.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
That’s a lot of reinstalls. Something must messing with the office apps? Antivirus?
We have the same issues and primarily use Defender.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller I am sure that a large percentage of organizations that use MS office would get by peachy without it. It might just be a culture thing to expect MS office in a business because no one really evaluates things. I know there are always exceptions.
Once upon a time, it was a running joke to move people to StarOffice and see if they noticed. I knew someone whose clients didn't realize, at all. And another that thought that it was just a standard upgrade. And that was around 2000!
Yeah not surprising at all. 95% of users in my experience use nothing but absolute basics of its capability. When that is the case, it does not make sense to pay for it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
Same here for customers on MS Office. Reinstalling Office and/or Windows + Office is a major time sink. Especially when customers are small and can't do imaging options.
Exactly. Since I am the only one that does all this for us, it uses time I could be spent on clearing work tickets.
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Just edited the original list to mention that LO runs on two of our platforms where MSO is a problem. One is Raspberry Pi because we use those, a little, but more and more. And more and more customers are moving to them (from basically zero, so it's not a lot, but a lot more than six months ago.) But we are right on the cusp of making the RP our official internal platforms. In fact I'm posting from one. So our use of it just keeps increasing especially as two of our key partner companies use it primarily, and a third is about to.
The other being our terminal server. Yes, you can put MSO on a TS, but it's a pain. We have customers doing this and it's a licensing headache. LO, just works.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
In reality, LO handles MSO formatting pretty well. Far better than people give it credit for. Even if we were in a situation where we needed to do it, it would likely not matter.
I use a combination of Zoho and LibreOffice myself. More Zoho to be honest. It's like 60-40. I could use either exclusively though. I can't remember the last time, if ever, that I had trouble with formatting so I totally agree with this as well based on my experiences. There are always exceptions of course as there will be some user that has trouble. However, I have never had an Excel sheet or anything else that LibreOffice did not handle. I see no speed difference either. So maybe in cases where people have trouble there are other circumstances not mentioned or things happening they are not aware of.
Same here, I use Zoho for some things (historical reasoning) and LO for almost everything else. I have no access to MSO. I get files, once in a while, in MSO, but I can't remember the last time that there was a formatting problem. I'd guess not for ten years or more. Not to say that it is exact, but it's a Word doc, it's not meant to be exact, it's a collaboration format.
I have mso installed and keep up with how to use it adequately because I have to know it well enough to support it.
Nothing will keep formatting exact but I don't see that as a problem anyway. -
@gjacobse said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
I can see where AV can cause issues,.. but some times I wonder if it's not all the layers and layers of security. MS, with Azure and hybrid configurations with SSO and 2FA or MFA adds quite a bit of additional steps.
That could certainly be an issue. Just no way to prove or disprove it in our situation.
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@gjacobse said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
My office; the State; using SSO for a number of things - which is great - and very much NOT. Damn near every aspect of access is attached to the AD account. I believe there are a total of five different NON MS based systems that use AD - the only one that doesn't - Mainframe - and well - it's Mainframe.
Yeah we use SSO also. Well I don't because I disagree with it entirely. We have the choice so I am not breaking any rules. I see SSO as an excuse to be lazy with passwords for poorly trained users. We won't train our users and they will not take any responsibility for their own training. I have asked if I could start an initiative to train people campus wide because I am very good with all the software we have and I am good with people. I was told no, they would rather have me do manual labor moving around equipment and work on tickets only. My updating of users every day is my own initiative, I don't think they even know I do that on a regular basis.
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@gjacobse said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
To make matter worse is the password / time policy that restricts the type of passwords you can have. And - the additional kick ( which many have when you have in office and WFH staff ) de-sync of the passwords from the device and the domain.
Your right, that is the fault of using AD. Users at home have to keep using same pw forever because they do not go into the office to sync where it makes them change pw. I also do not like AD for that and other reasons. Guess I am just getting bitter lol.
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@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
Same here for customers on MS Office. Reinstalling Office and/or Windows + Office is a major time sink. Especially when customers are small and can't do imaging options.
Exactly. Since I am the only one that does all this for us, it uses time I could be spent on clearing work tickets.
Well technically those are work tickets too.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
The other being our terminal server. Yes, you can put MSO on a TS, but it's a pain. We have customers doing this and it's a licensing headache. LO, just works.
Yeah not having to deal with licensing compliance and having it cost so much money for an organization are real drawbacks to using it. If I was in charge I would have people use whatever makes sense. So 90% or more would be on LibreOffice or something similar and the occasional power user, if they demonstrated a need, we could easily just pay for those few power users that needed something in MS office. I would also do this for several of our Microsoft products. Use them only for people that needed. Save all that money and spend a fraction of it on training people how to be proper users and save the rest. We would come out very far ahead financially.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@jmoore said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
It's native to, and built into Ubuntu Linux which is our official platform. This means essentially zero IT support needed, it's even in the default install. Even employees opting for Fedora, Pop_OS, Raspberry Pi OS get it by default, too. And our one MacOS user gets it. And anyone playing with Windows gets it from Chocolatey.
This is a very valid point. I do all the installs at our campuses. I spend so much time installing and re-installing because it develops problems for us. While I have mitigated a lot of the install time by putting it in my user image, I still have to reinstall on a regular basis. We have close to 300 non-IT users and it breaks a lot. Too much in my opinion. I have to do 2-3 re-installs a week on average to fix issues it gets on its on.
Same here for customers on MS Office. Reinstalling Office and/or Windows + Office is a major time sink. Especially when customers are small and can't do imaging options.
Exactly. Since I am the only one that does all this for us, it uses time I could be spent on clearing work tickets.
Well technically those are work tickets too.
Haha your right in some cases they are.
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I have been using LO for at least a few years, maybe more. I do not own a copy of MS Office nor have a PC that it is installed on. For my normal use, LO does everything I need it to and more. If I share a file with someone else, I send it as a PDF anyway.
If someone wants or thinks they must have Office, good for them. My opinion is that Outlook is a big reason people purchase Office. Again, they just use it for basic sending/receiving emails, and none of the features it has when paired with Exchange. -
@brandon220 said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
If I share a file with someone else, I send it as a PDF anyway.
Same here. I all but never share an editable document with someone.
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@brandon220 said in Why I Choose LibreOffice:
If someone wants or thinks they must have Office, good for them. My opinion is that Outlook is a big reason people purchase Office. Again, they just use it for basic sending/receiving emails, and none of the features it has when paired with Exchange.
I'm a big believe in "it's cheaper to replace the employee." Good employees can learn new tools, generally in extremely little time. And good employees are happy to do so because it means more profits for the company. The less costly the tools, the more valuable the employee. Any one tool is minor. But I've seen places where they are paying hundreds of dollars a month on software licensing, and loads of IT cost in support, for workers who were lucky to be able to show any value in the first place. In that situation, it's not hard for the hard cost of software licensing to be the difference between a good employee and a former employee.
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I've been using OnlyOffice personally for a couple of years now. It was just better at getting the MS Office formatting correct when I made the switch. Which was a major factor for me while looking for a job.
/tangent Recruiters, do yourselves a favor and stop asking for resumes/CVs in Word format! /tangent
I've used LibreOffice since it was only OpenOffice. Remember when it started as StarOffice, the Sun aquesition, the split to LibreOffice, and now the Apache OpenOffice. More history lesson here. Sun purchased the company, Star Division, in 1999 because buying said company for 59.5 million was cheaper than licensing Microsoft Office for 42,000 employees.
