Newb: Looking for advice.



  • We are a small shop, under 100 users. Our work load does not fluctuate from day to day. We are not expecting load growth above 3% year over year. There is not enough demand on resources to require a on demand emergency reactionary type of architecture. We do not do any kind of application development, most of our enterprise application is off the shelf. Our leadership really wants to get to "the cloud". I am currently reading everything i can get my hands on to understand which way to go. I fully understand and accept that I am a "Buyer" and not an admin or architect. I just need some advice on where to start this journey "To the cloud or Not to the cloud". Thank you for any advice you can give.



  • Sounds like someone's taking to ML for a homework assignment?



  • @notverypunny said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Sounds like someone's taking to ML for a homework assignment?

    when i first started talking to @scottalanmiller ; it was always go to ML and create a new topic, or ask the community.
    That's why I'm here! lol

    @popester
    What is the goal of "getting to the cloud" ?



  • @popester

    Well what services do you use currently ?

    Cause cloud for file sharing and storage can be great option. Also for small web sites.

    Also CEOs just read email about Amazon and bam they are hooked like 7yr old kid, and they want to move everything to it, cause they read in the email that 33% cost reduction, 20% efficiency increase, 50% penis growth
    and they actually believe it

    Ever thought how come the word penis is pronounced peanus but we type it penis
    I am now ..



  • @Emad-R said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    @popester

    , 50% penis growth

    Uh....



  • @WrCombs Thanks man!! I appreciate it.

    I have been a lurker of ML for a couple of years.

    Well, that is the whole problem. I have been putting off everything to do with trying to understand cloud computing because I am not in the captains chair where I work. The current captain hates all things cloud. Well it is getting closer to his retirement so I figure I had better start sharpening the brain. Long story short, started AD meds "under Dr. care of course" and am trying to make "or not make" a case for how to move forward into the future since it appears I will be taking the helm.



  • @popester said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    @WrCombs Thanks man!! I appreciate it.

    I have been a lurker of ML for a couple of years.

    Well, that is the whole problem. I have been putting off everything to do with trying to understand cloud computing because I am not in the captains chair where I work. The current captain hates all things cloud. Well it is getting closer to his retirement so I figure I had better start sharpening the brain. Long story short, started AD meds "under Dr. care of course" and am trying to make "or not make" a case for how to move forward into the future since it appears I will be taking the helm.

    ML is a good place to learn and ask questions - for sure.

    So I would say that's your first question - What goal will Moving "to the cloud" achieve for the business in respects to HVAC shops? ( read your BIO

    then I'd look at what @Emad-R asked about services;



  • @Emad-R when you say "services" do you mean off prem, on prem? The first guy kind of had it right.... Ashamed? Yes. To proud? No. The lingo is not a strength.



  • @popester

    Like your shop what do you rely on IT wise ?
    and yup i mean both
    off prem and on prem

    gather that info and paste it here, and we will suggest for example

    1. internal web server or lamp stack running nextcloud software
    2. NAS device


  • @Emad-R I understand. I will cobble that together and post here. Thank you so much. I have a Dr. Appointment so it will be tomorrow. Again thank you for taking the time to help.



  • @notverypunny said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Sounds like someone's taking to ML for a homework assignment?

    Did you bother to even look at the user profile?



  • @popester said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    I just need some advice on where to start this journey "To the cloud or Not to the cloud".

    Step one. Find out, or define, what management means by this. Because literally everyone has a completely unique and unrelated definition, and everyone believes that their definition is the only one. Absolutely no one can say "cloud" like this and be even remotely confident that anyone else shares their understanding of it.

    This could mean so many things. Some that seem reasonable, some that seem crazy. And none should be determined by someone outside of IT because it means that they are being emotional and not thinking about the business.

    Bottom line... what goal do they think they are asking for?



  • @WrCombs said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    What is the goal of "getting to the cloud" ?

    Boom, "goal" right away. I've trained you well.



  • @popester said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    I have been putting off everything to do with trying to understand cloud computing because I am not in the captains chair where I work.

    Non-tech people never mean cloud computing when they say cloud. None. We've had cloud for 17 years now and I've never heard even a rumour of this ever being true. Cloud computing is wholly unrelated to what common people think cloud means.

    To normal people, cloud means hosted, not the technical cloud. It's like telling you that they only want Linux, but they actually meant a command line. Unrelated, Windows has a command line just the same, Linux has a GUI just the same. It's just a word management has heard. A company with ~100 users has essentially no business looking at actual cloud computing, it's not for them.



  • While this is about private cloud, many points overlap.

    When to Consider Private Cloud



  • What is "The Cloud"...

    Youtube Video



  • Cloud Computing Architecture from SpiceCorps DFW 2012

    Youtube Video



  • I think cloud can have value for small companies as they can scale their resources low to avoid overhead. You can automate deployments and spend less time troubleshooting. Not to mention the obvious disaster recovery benefits where you can restore things very quickly for low cost.



  • @popester said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Well it is getting closer to his retirement so I figure I had better start sharpening the brain. Long story short, started AD meds "under Dr. care of course" and am trying to make "or not make" a case for how to move forward into the future since it appears I will be taking the helm.

    Cloud is not "the future". It's mostly a buzzword. Cloud is one of many critical architectures. But one that is ideally suited exclusively to horizontally, elastic scaling workloads (trust me, if you don't know that term, cloud isn't the right answer for you.)

    It literally comes down to that. Unless your workload is elastic and scales specifically horizontally and you understand the system architecture to handle that, cloud makes no sense for you, none. Cloud computing is for that one, very specific niche use case (that happens to be the use case needed by folks like Change, Netflix, Amazon, etc.)

    Cloud can power other workloads, but there is a difference, a huge difference, between "I need cloud computing" and "I need a service, that coincidentally uses cloud computing under the hood."



  • @IRJ said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    I think cloud can have value for small companies as they can scale their resources low to avoid overhead.

    That's VPS, not cloud. Cloud may or may not power VPS. But it is the VPS that allows for this, rather than the cloud. It's only because the VPS provider benefits from horizontal, elastic workloads that it often makes sense for them to use cloud to power their solution. But for SMBs, it's that it is a VPS, not that the VPS is on a cloud, that makes it useful for them.



  • @IRJ said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Not to mention the obvious disaster recovery benefits where you can restore things very quickly for low cost.

    That's not endemic to cloud computing, though. Non-cloud can do that just the same.



  • This guide will help a LOT when talking cloud. Many people think cloud means just one side of any axis, but cloud refers equally to all.

    https://mangolassi.it/topic/12023/cloud-computing-term-matrix



  • @scottalanmiller said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    To normal people, cloud means hosted, not the technical cloud.

    But wasn't that the original meaning to be honest? Hosted somewhere on the internet (and draw a big cloud to symbolize internet).



  • @Pete-S said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    @scottalanmiller said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    To normal people, cloud means hosted, not the technical cloud.

    But wasn't that the original meaning to be honest? Hosted somewhere on the internet (and draw a big cloud to symbolize internet).

    Using a cloud to mean "the internet" was a graphical representation before IT had cloud computing. But it was not "a cloud", the unknown network was "the cloud." And yes, this is very old.

    Cloud computing, cloud in IT terms, is from Amazon in 2002 and did not imply hosted or Internet in any way, but referred to the pool of elastically scalable resources that were on premises to them that they could provision and scale programatically. Cloud computing was born from Amazon and they defined it carefully, and submitted that definition to NIST where the US Gov't ratified it as an extremely precise definition that equally includes things that are hosted on the Internet and things that are local ( and might not even be online.)



  • @popester said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Our leadership really wants to get to "the cloud".

    The use here doesn't imply IT's cloud computing in any way. "The cloud" has always, as was just pointed out above, meant literally nothing more than "hosted".

    So the sole move that that terminology implies is leaving your premises to be hosted elsewhere. It doesn't imply cloud computing in any way.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Using a cloud to mean "the internet" was a graphical representation before IT had cloud computing. But it was not "a cloud", the unknown network was "the cloud." And yes, this is very old.

    I'm very old myself, or at least I feel old in the morning, so there you go 🙂



  • @notverypunny said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    Sounds like someone's taking to ML for a homework assignment?

    This is very dustin'y of you to say.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Newb: Looking for advice.:

    This could mean so many things.

    If they have a website, or email, etc, it's possible they are already "in the cloud".



  • Our storage to host network is 10g Meraki. We run 100mb Avaya to our end users connect with Avaya 9608 sip phone passing through to Dell 3040 zero clients

    Total of 3 Hosts:

    • Hypervisor: VMware ESXi, 6.5.0

    • Model: PowerEdge R730

    • Processor Type: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2690 v3 @ 2.60GHz

    • Logical Processors: 144

    • 383 gig

    Picture1.png

    We run:

    Citrix Studio

    Citrix Systems, Inc.

    Version: 7.15.2000.260

    XenApp shared desktop, windows 10, 125 users

    We have a 10gig host/storage network:

    Picture2.png

    Here is a typical week of activity:

    Picture3.png
    Picture4.png

    Hope this helps and hope i did not break any rules. Thank you.



  • Sorry, I did not realize all of the great content posted. I am reading all of it now playing catch-up.. Thank you everyone.


Log in to reply