Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
I know that some of our Windows 7 machines have, in the last few months, popped up the Windows 10 upgrade automatically, from MS. So I know for a fact that the upgrade is legal. But finding paperwork on it is the hard part. But the OS itself has listed Windows 10 as the "patch".
It would be interesting to know if that 'patch' would actually apply.
What I've seen (only posted on websites, not on my own), is that Windows 7 is prompting people to update because Win 7 is nearing EOL, nothing about getting a free upgrade. Not even sure it's actually giving them a way to upgrade.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Unless someone provides "in path" documentation that would supersede this, here is the section that makes the Windows 7 to Windows 10 upgrade fully legal (in conjunction with the MCT acquisition, the key verification, activation, etc. all being approved by MS)...
"Installation and Use Rights.
a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
Microsoft provides the license for use here. And stipulates how you could have violated it. Once you accept the EULA, and haven't tricked MS, they've legally agreed to its use. Seems really clear. And not just clear in general, but they even state that non-genuine keys that would trick it into accepting the install aren't valid, implying that genuine ones are.
What about that makes the upgrade legal? what words specifically?
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Here's another thing that clearly states you must have a valid Windows 10 license to use the MCT
Yes, and Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 qualify as licenses for that. Windows 10 is just Windows rebranded, it's not a separate product. Those are, and always have been valid licenses.
how do you come to that conclusion?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Here's another thing that clearly states you must have a valid Windows 10 license to use the MCT
Yes, and Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 qualify as licenses for that. Windows 10 is just Windows rebranded, it's not a separate product. Those are, and always have been valid licenses.
how do you come to that conclusion?
Properly licensed old version AND successful activation with only those keys will work.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
i completely disagree with the path Scott took... and clearly, I am not alone.
Now - all that said - I completely agree with Scott's assessment that MS wants everyone on Windows 10 ASAP - and I myself believe MS won't prosecute anyone who used the 'upgrade' path from a legal Win 7, 8, 8.1 license to 10 - again, because they WANT people on 10, now!
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
i completely disagree with the path Scott took... and clearly, I am not alone.
Now - all that said - I completely agree with Scott's assessment that MS wants everyone on Windows 10 ASAP - and I myself believe MS won't prosecute anyone who used the 'upgrade' path from a legal Win 7, 8, 8.1 license to 10 - again, because they WANT people on 10, now!
that is the exact same as licensing everybody that has a Windows 7 8 or 8.1 to be freely eligible to upgrade the Windows 10 at will and be fully valid and licensed.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
i completely disagree with the path Scott took... and clearly, I am not alone.
Now - all that said - I completely agree with Scott's assessment that MS wants everyone on Windows 10 ASAP - and I myself believe MS won't prosecute anyone who used the 'upgrade' path from a legal Win 7, 8, 8.1 license to 10 - again, because they WANT people on 10, now!
that is the exact same as licensing everybody that has a Windows 7 8 or 8.1 to be freely eligible to upgrade the Windows 10 at will and be fully valid and licensed.
Wanting everyone to be there is not a legal thing in any way. So if you are claiming MS's desire to have everyone on Windows 10 ASAP, is the same as Granting a free unlimited upgrade to every Win 7, 8, 8.1 license out there - well, I simply disagree with you.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
i completely disagree with the path Scott took... and clearly, I am not alone.
Now - all that said - I completely agree with Scott's assessment that MS wants everyone on Windows 10 ASAP - and I myself believe MS won't prosecute anyone who used the 'upgrade' path from a legal Win 7, 8, 8.1 license to 10 - again, because they WANT people on 10, now!
that is the exact same as licensing everybody that has a Windows 7 8 or 8.1 to be freely eligible to upgrade the Windows 10 at will and be fully valid and licensed.
Wanting everyone to be there is not a legal thing in any way. So if you are claiming MS's desire to have everyone on Windows 10 ASAP, is the same as Granting a free unlimited upgrade to every Win 7, 8, 8.1 license out there - well, I simply disagree with you.
And Microsoft would disagree with you, as Microsoft has clearly greenlit and valid license for upgrade to Windows 10
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right - which if all you have is a Windows 7 licenses - means you don't have a valid license to use to install said software.
FFS pull your head out of your ass and look at the conversation and proof posted in the EULA and ToC.
i completely disagree with the path Scott took... and clearly, I am not alone.
Now - all that said - I completely agree with Scott's assessment that MS wants everyone on Windows 10 ASAP - and I myself believe MS won't prosecute anyone who used the 'upgrade' path from a legal Win 7, 8, 8.1 license to 10 - again, because they WANT people on 10, now!
that is the exact same as licensing everybody that has a Windows 7 8 or 8.1 to be freely eligible to upgrade the Windows 10 at will and be fully valid and licensed.
Wanting everyone to be there is not a legal thing in any way. So if you are claiming MS's desire to have everyone on Windows 10 ASAP, is the same as Granting a free unlimited upgrade to every Win 7, 8, 8.1 license out there - well, I simply disagree with you.
And Microsoft would disagree with you, as Microsoft has clearly greenlit and valid license for upgrade to Windows 10
I see the logic you're using - since MCT will grant your valid Win7 license a win 10 entitlement, therefore it's completely legal.
But just because MS put a process in place for this purpose, then never removed it, doesn't mean that after a clearly stated deadline that using that method is legal.
Now you could argue in a court that - judge, come on now.. they left it open... what are we supposed to think? they left it open so it must be OK... and to that I say - screw you buddy - NOPE.
But now we are simply arguing to fucking argue. Because i have already capitulated to the point that I believe that MS will never prosecute someone who upgrades from a legal 7, 8, 8.1 version to Windows 10 using this process.
so we can just drop it... We are simply disagreeing on the legal standing, the end result is the same. At least until there is a court case.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Wanting everyone to be there is not a legal thing in any way.
You'll need to back that up, since Microsoft says otherwise.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
So if you are claiming MS's desire to have everyone on Windows 10 ASAP, is the same as Granting a free unlimited upgrade to every Win 7, 8, 8.1 license out there - well, I simply disagree with you.
No one claimed that, so using that as a basis for argument doesn't make sense.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
I see the logic you're using - since MCT will grant your valid Win7 license a win 10 entitlement, therefore it's completely legal.
Where MCT = Microsoft and Microsoft = the sole authority on the matter. Yes, seems pretty clear. I'm confused as to how "legally obtaining" and "legally updating" and being "legally licensed" somehow is making you feel that this isn't legal.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
But just because MS put a process in place for this purpose, then never removed it, doesn't mean that after a clearly stated deadline that using that method is legal.
That's why we use the license agreement paperwork to show it.
Everything here is wrong. First, it's that there is a license that says it is okay. Then there was a process to block it, but MS published that it was blocking things that were not intended (this very case in fact), then the block was removed. It is, and I'm flabbergasted that I have to say it yet again, the combination of the license and the valid activation that both logically, and according to Microsoft's own paperwork, makes it valid.
At this point, you need to go yell and Microsoft because for some reason, you are upset that they've provided a free path. That's between you and them as to why that is making you angry, but it has nothing to do with us.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
so we can just drop it... We are simply disagreeing on the legal standing, the end result is the same. At least until there is a court case.
You can't just make something up that has nothing to back it, claim that Microsoft's own license isn't valid, and tell people to drop it. We provided really solid legal evidence. You just said "drop it". Why not provide a reason for feeling that the info from the EULA is wrong?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
But just because MS put a process in place for this purpose, then never removed it, doesn't mean that after a clearly stated deadline that using that method is legal.
Now you could argue in a court that - judge, come on now.. they left it open... what are we supposed to think? they left it open so it must be OK... and to that I say - screw you buddy - NOPE.Yup, but we didn't state this. So why are you mentioning it? This is the same "change what we say because you don't have a reason for why we are wrong" that's been being used previously. No one claimed this, repeating it to make it look like someone said it is a logical fallacy technique used for misdirection. It's not going to fly.
If you believed that you were correct, we'd expect that you would either provide documentation to support it in the form of the license document from MS (that's the sole paperwork that matters) or you'd provide a logical refute for our logic. Lacking either of those, it just sounds like you are yelling to yell and not actually willing to discuss the matter at hand.
What I don't understand is, why everyone is so religiously tied to the belief that MS is going to ban something that makes no business sense for them to ban, and isn't in anyone's interest. MS doesn't want it banned, you don't want it banned, MS hasn't banned it in any license... and yet why are people arguing that it is? What's driving this behaviour?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
We are simply disagreeing on the legal standing, the end result is the same.
Actually no, that's not where we are. Some of us are talking about what the license says and literally no one has provided a refute to that. There has been discussion about other things, but no one has refuted what the license says.
All we are getting is people saying "I don't care what Microsoft's license says, you can't do that" essentially. So on one side, we are showing that legally MS says we can. On the other hand is "I don't care what it says." So the disagreement isn't over the legal standing, but over whether MS gets to allow this or not.
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@Dashrender said in Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Well, now we are at an odd situation - typically I would say - it requires buying a new license, but well - that's clearly off the table... MS has made upgrading because XYZ excuse still possible for free, even if it is a total gray area legally (and as far as I know, there are no court cases about people taking 'free' windows 10 upgrades after MS's announced end to the program there is no basis in my mind to claim anything but a gray situation
Program was not ended. One program was ended, but not others. The upgrade is still publicly free both legally and technically. There is no gray, stopping one upgrade path has nothing to do with others.
What path do you consider still open? Only paths I was aware of are:
- free until some date in 2016
- if you use accessibility features, free until some date in 2018
Those were two paths. Currently it appears that at least a third path is still open. Those were simply the advertised paths which they needed so that they could then close them to make it appear that there was pressure. But we definitely found a third path that doesn't require either of those. As expected from the beginning.
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@Dashrender said in Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Well, now we are at an odd situation - typically I would say - it requires buying a new license, but well - that's clearly off the table... MS has made upgrading because XYZ excuse still possible for free, even if it is a total gray area legally (and as far as I know, there are no court cases about people taking 'free' windows 10 upgrades after MS's announced end to the program there is no basis in my mind to claim anything but a gray situation
Program was not ended. One program was ended, but not others. The upgrade is still publicly free both legally and technically. There is no gray, stopping one upgrade path has nothing to do with others.
What path do you consider still open? Only paths I was aware of are:
- free until some date in 2016
- if you use accessibility features, free until some date in 2018
Windows 10 Media Creation tool.
You can download it this moment, plug in the bootable disk to any Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 system and upgrade to Windows 10 at no cost.
just because you can does not make it legal.
No, just because you can does not. It is because the license that comes with that states that it is okay is what makes it legal. Same as with any software. Once legally obtained and legally licensed, it's legal.
