Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?
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@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
some of the systems they sell can come with 4-8 GB of RAM and NOT give you an option to add more ram (intentionally) because they removed the slot! So if you want brand new, BE WISE AND READ!
This sort of crap pisses me off.
This and: "Oh you want the i5? Well that only comes with 8GB of RAM sorry, you need to order the i7 to get the 16GB of RAM. Evil laugh ensues (probably)yeah - I agree with that.
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'm talking about the same model. A great example is the Latitude series, Dell does this crap with their different builds.
i7 and i5 latitudes are the same shape and size. It's literally the same chassis.The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
Depending on the year it made a huge difference. Mainly hyperthreading and of course the amount of cores.
Imo, having used both extensively, there's a huge difference between an i5 and i7.I call BS on that because they have all been 2 cores for a long, long time, up until 8th gen. Only the gaming CPUs (end in H/HQ/HK) have been 4 cores.
So the difference you noticed has been psychological or a change of generations or other components in the system, not i5 versus i7.
No. i7 blows the shit out of i5. i5s I THINK barely have hyperthreading as of now starting with Gen 8.
They've always been slower than the i7s and had less cores.
It's like comparing a S-10 to a Silverado and saying the S-10 is just as fast and can haul more.
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@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
some of the systems they sell can come with 4-8 GB of RAM and NOT give you an option to add more ram (intentionally) because they removed the slot! So if you want brand new, BE WISE AND READ!
This sort of crap pisses me off.
This and: "Oh you want the i5? Well that only comes with 8GB of RAM sorry, you need to order the i7 to get the 16GB of RAM. Evil laugh ensues (probably)yeah - I agree with that.
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'm talking about the same model. A great example is the Latitude series, Dell does this crap with their different builds.
i7 and i5 latitudes are the same shape and size. It's literally the same chassis.The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
Depending on the year it made a huge difference. Mainly hyperthreading and of course the amount of cores.
Imo, having used both extensively, there's a huge difference between an i5 and i7.I call BS on that because they have all been 2 cores for a long, long time, up until 8th gen. Only the gaming CPUs (end in H/HQ/HK) have been 4 cores.
So the difference you noticed has been psychological or a change of generations or other components in the system, not i5 versus i7.
Just checked and i5 mobile CPUs have had hyperthreading since 1st generation, introduced in 2010.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
some of the systems they sell can come with 4-8 GB of RAM and NOT give you an option to add more ram (intentionally) because they removed the slot! So if you want brand new, BE WISE AND READ!
This sort of crap pisses me off.
This and: "Oh you want the i5? Well that only comes with 8GB of RAM sorry, you need to order the i7 to get the 16GB of RAM. Evil laugh ensues (probably)yeah - I agree with that.
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'm talking about the same model. A great example is the Latitude series, Dell does this crap with their different builds.
i7 and i5 latitudes are the same shape and size. It's literally the same chassis.The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
Depending on the year it made a huge difference. Mainly hyperthreading and of course the amount of cores.
Imo, having used both extensively, there's a huge difference between an i5 and i7.I call BS on that because they have all been 2 cores for a long, long time, up until 8th gen. Only the gaming CPUs (end in H/HQ/HK) have been 4 cores.
So the difference you noticed has been psychological or a change of generations or other components in the system, not i5 versus i7.
No. i7 blows the shit out of i5. i5s I THINK barely have hyperthreading as of now starting with Gen 8.
They've always been slower than the i7s and had less cores.
It's like comparing a S-10 to a Silverado and saying the S-10 is just as fast and can haul more.Are you talking about the desktop CPUs? You do know that they are completely different compared to the mobile CPUs right?
i5 mobile != i5 desktop -
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
some of the systems they sell can come with 4-8 GB of RAM and NOT give you an option to add more ram (intentionally) because they removed the slot! So if you want brand new, BE WISE AND READ!
This sort of crap pisses me off.
This and: "Oh you want the i5? Well that only comes with 8GB of RAM sorry, you need to order the i7 to get the 16GB of RAM. Evil laugh ensues (probably)yeah - I agree with that.
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'm talking about the same model. A great example is the Latitude series, Dell does this crap with their different builds.
i7 and i5 latitudes are the same shape and size. It's literally the same chassis.The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
Depending on the year it made a huge difference. Mainly hyperthreading and of course the amount of cores.
Imo, having used both extensively, there's a huge difference between an i5 and i7.I call BS on that because they have all been 2 cores for a long, long time, up until 8th gen. Only the gaming CPUs (end in H/HQ/HK) have been 4 cores.
So the difference you noticed has been psychological or a change of generations or other components in the system, not i5 versus i7.
No. i7 blows the shit out of i5. i5s I THINK barely have hyperthreading as of now starting with Gen 8.
They've always been slower than the i7s and had less cores.
It's like comparing a S-10 to a Silverado and saying the S-10 is just as fast and can haul more.Are you talking about the desktop CPUs? You do know that they are completely different compared to the mobile CPUs right?
i5 mobile != i5 desktopI'm aware lol.
Fuck can't find older systems to show you.
Not all i5s had hyperthreading, I recall looking into ordering machines for our company a couple years ago, the i5s for the laptops were just 4 cores with four threads. Then the i7 had 4 cores with 8 threads. -
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
some of the systems they sell can come with 4-8 GB of RAM and NOT give you an option to add more ram (intentionally) because they removed the slot! So if you want brand new, BE WISE AND READ!
This sort of crap pisses me off.
This and: "Oh you want the i5? Well that only comes with 8GB of RAM sorry, you need to order the i7 to get the 16GB of RAM. Evil laugh ensues (probably)yeah - I agree with that.
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'm talking about the same model. A great example is the Latitude series, Dell does this crap with their different builds.
i7 and i5 latitudes are the same shape and size. It's literally the same chassis.The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
Depending on the year it made a huge difference. Mainly hyperthreading and of course the amount of cores.
Imo, having used both extensively, there's a huge difference between an i5 and i7.I call BS on that because they have all been 2 cores for a long, long time, up until 8th gen. Only the gaming CPUs (end in H/HQ/HK) have been 4 cores.
So the difference you noticed has been psychological or a change of generations or other components in the system, not i5 versus i7.
No. i7 blows the shit out of i5. i5s I THINK barely have hyperthreading as of now starting with Gen 8.
They've always been slower than the i7s and had less cores.
It's like comparing a S-10 to a Silverado and saying the S-10 is just as fast and can haul more.Are you talking about the desktop CPUs? You do know that they are completely different compared to the mobile CPUs right?
i5 mobile != i5 desktopI'm aware lol.
Fuck can't find older systems to show you.
Not all i5s had hyperthreading, I recall looking into ordering machines for our company a couple years ago, the i5s for the laptops were just 4 cores with four threads. Then the i7 had 4 cores with 8 threads.https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/skylake-i5-no-hyper-threading.2388238/
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on the i5 vs i7 I can't really comment as never really used i7's.
I've got a i7 7th gen now and I can't honestly say its any quicker than the i5 7th Gen I had.But then I only do day to day stuff, E-mail, Microsoft Office, E-mail, Internet. Nothing that will hammer the cores.
Person here that normally sets-up new machines ready for employees has commented that the new i3 8th & 9th Gens run really quick (Installing stuff, loading programs etc) compared to the i5 5th & 6th Gen so we've started just buying newer i3's for office work.
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@hobbit666 Yeah for light stuff I can see that.
For me, I noticed the difference because I'd have dozens of Chrome tabs open, Server Manager, Remote Desktop Manager...I'm already forgetting...Whatever, several other programs lol. Over 8GB of ram usage. For me, going from the Core 2 duo they gave me at work, to then the i5 SP4 with 8GB of ram to then the 7470, 7480 and 7490 (i7s, 16GB ram) made a huge difference. (Err...not between the latitudes though, those of course felt the same despite the 7470/7480 having the i7 gen 7 proc.
Oh right, actually I went to a better SP5 before switching to the Dells. Went through a ton of machines haha. The Latitudes we got in kept having dock issues, so dell would come out to fix the issues, well I'd give my computer to the person affected, Dell fixed the machine, I'd then use it...then another person would have issues, I'd give my computer, etc.
At the time, Dell had a big waiting list, so getting an additional machine or machines took months.
Annnnnyway, yeah, that's enough morning rambling haha -
It's a very user-specific thing. I've found I can't even stand to work on 4c/8t i7's anymore, the lag is very palpable when just using a computer normally for me. If you think you're the type of person who gets annoyed, or worse, tripped up while working when you're waiting on your computer, the best investment you can make is a 6 or 8 core CPU and a very high-end NVME SSD. If you'll be using a 4k or higher resolution monitor or multiple monitors that are 2560x1440 or higher resolution, you'll also want to invest in a decent GPU. The money is very worth it. If you can afford it, also opt for a CPU w/ the highest base clock you can afford as that'll actually affect how fast it feels in many use cases including web browsing.
- Written from my 5.2 Ghz octacore i9-9900KF 2080TI workstation
- Written from my 5.2 Ghz octacore i9-9900KF 2080TI workstation
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Two pretty insane deals:
17.3" i7-8750H ( hexacore ) , 16GB DDR4, GTX 1050 TI, 128GB SSD, 1TB HDD, mini display port, hdmi, rj-45 out
$636.75 after $ back promotion15.6" thin-bezels, i7-8750H ( hexacore ), 8GB DDR4, GTX 1050 TI, 512GB SSD, USB-C, mini display port, hdmi, rj-45
$562.74 after $ back promotion -
@Pete-S said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
The whole i5/i7 is just a bunch of marketing that creates confusion. There is no real difference between i5 and i7 on mobile CPUs. Usually the i7 can run on a slightly higher clock frequency so it's about 10-15% faster when pushed. Which is not enough for the user to actually notice.
So it's better to take the i5, save a bunch of $$$ and buy memory for that instead. Seeing Dell selling new laptops in 2019 with spinning rust and 4GB RAM - that should be criminal.
BTW, if you truly need speed you should go with one of the workstation or gaming laptops. They have a different, faster category of CPU. Higher TDP compared to the everyday laptops (45W versus 15W). But still slow compared to the desktop CPUs, which should be the choice for speed.
Respectfully disagree. But I will agree that for many people the difference between i7 and i5s ( generally speaking ) will never be perceived/valued, so in many cases it makes sense to go w/ an i5 for the $ savings.
For many other users and specific workloads, the difference is huge. Walking from my bedroom where I have a 2019 hexacore i5 Mac Mini running Windows 10 Pro hooked up to a 43" 4k monitor to my office across the hall where there's an octacore i9 it's like night and day. Each keystroke, click, and task-switch I do on the i9 feels VERY OBVIOUSLY faster than the Mac Mini. The Mac Mini feels ok, great for its size, until I hop onto the i9. When I get into serious workloads the difference becomes even more obvious, thread-dependent or not ( and honestly I don't have many workloads that use the surplus of cores, but I do multitask hard ).
The first time I went from an i5 to an i7-7700HQ it was a similar experience.
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@creayt said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
9900K
Uninstall Teams if it's there and see if the lag goes away.
My go-to right now is a Core i7 Extreme 3000 series with 64GB RAM and a bunch of Intel SSDs in RAID 1 and RAID 0 along with a few Intel NVMe Add-in-Cards for extra speed.
I'm on the fence as far as a replacement as it's been pushed well beyond its shelf life with the SSD RAID 0 helping to extend and then the NVMe PCIe AiC also pushing things out yet another year.
The CPU has become a bottleneck. :S
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@PhlipElder What's Teams?
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@black3dynamite said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@creayt said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@PhlipElder What's Teams?
Microsoft Teams
Ah, I think I've maybe heard of that. I don't use it though and have confirmed it's not installed. I do use Slack though, but it's running identically on all my devices so I don't think it'd be the cause for performance differences.
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@creayt said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@black3dynamite said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@creayt said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@PhlipElder What's Teams?
Microsoft Teams
Ah, I think I've maybe heard of that. I don't use it though and have confirmed it's not installed. I do use Slack though, but it's running identically on all my devices so I don't think it'd be the cause for performance differences.
ProcessExplorer or ProcessMonitor digs right in to give you a direct eye on all services that can be seen and in the background. That may be the next step to see what's soaking up those CPU cycles.
EDIT: Unless you already know the culprit?
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@PhlipElder If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, the culprit would just be the relatively slower processor on the slower machine being constrasted.
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Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Hell no it's not because of the "lightweight" and "thin size". That is cost-driven to make you purchase the same model that adds one frigging slot. If you look at the PCB, it's got the solder points there already! I hate to say it, this is the same effect and the same thing as what Apple does in certain scenarios.
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@krisleslie said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
Sadly - sometimes it's due to the fact that they are trying for SUPER thin and SUPER light.. so making things modular costs both thickness and weight.
Hell no it's not because of the "lightweight" and "thin size". That is cost-driven to make you purchase the same model that adds one frigging slot. If you look at the PCB, it's got the solder points there already! I hate to say it, this is the same effect and the same thing as what Apple does in certain scenarios.
I did mention reduced SKUs also - which is basically what you're talking about.
