VM Suggestions? Best Practice?
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
I've recently Pitched the Idea to my boss to start using VM's to recreate issues and work on fixes for Terminals and back end software, Regardless that he shut it down without much thought, I want to look into it at home so i can play with Things, and test out a few theories without using a live site ( Our vendor uses Vm's to test our issues that we send in, and gives us fixes based on what they do in the VM, My thought, Why not do the same ? could we resolve issues without need to send to the Vendor?)
So...
What is a good VM software out there?
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
Looking for opensourced if possible.Looking for Free and Simple (thanks @DustinB3403 )What's best practice for Vm's in troubleshooting? ( i have a feeling that's not what they are intended to be used for but in this case i would turn it into a personal lab with different software to resolve issues for the clients probably at home or on my laptop. Once my new One gets in, of course. )
See - now in reading this, I think @scottalanmiller would say your office is not a professional one, as a professional one rarely needs to reach outside of itself to get support for things they support. Though I might be oversimplifying that.
On one hand I can see a possible thinking on the part of your boss. He pays for support of that software that he provides his clients. If the cost of that support is less than paying you (and the other employees) a higher wage (because you are more educated) AND the time you spend working on these problems, then ultimately the boss makes more money just having support handle the troubleshooting. But that's likely a fine line. Because you're still being paid to at least do level one troubleshooting. And we don't know how much bench time you have where you're being paid, but not making money for the company.
Well - we are a reseller office. So from that standpoint, I'd agree. Because there are alot of hosted solutions (giftcards, loyalty, etc) that the vendor controls, SO We rely on them for a lot of issues..
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
He clearly has a lot of learning to do in any case. We're starting with the differences between a Type 1 and Type 2. . .
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
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The end result that @WrCombs is looking for is to create VM's on this laptop to test and troubleshoot issues that are being experienced in the field.
What would be the ways to do this?
VirtualBox is one
KVM is another
Hyper-V is anotherWhat are the benefits to each?
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.
i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.
I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .
I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.
No good options then. The only free option doesn't work for you.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
What the VM is going to be isn't relevant. It's your requirement to have Windows on the desktop that is the problem.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
What the VM is going to be isn't relevant. It's your requirement to have Windows on the desktop that is the problem.
I'll be running Windows 10 - Pro
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VirtualBox and KVM and Hyper-V are all free (assuming he has Windows 10 Pro or higher).
VirtualBox is a Type
12, its installed into his existing operating system and can be removed without any ill effect.
KVM is open source, and is a Type21 is pretty easy to get going with.
Hyper-V is also a Type21 and isn't difficult but he might be limited by what version of Windows he has. -
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
You have Pro?
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
This is my laptop - Not a work laptop.
This is for personal as well as business reasons.(that way they dont have a say in what I do on my Laptop )
In that case - Learn what you can, as fast as you can, then GTFO! The boss clearly doesn't actually desire smarter employees - he's pushing everything off on his support contracts - while that might be a good business decision, it's not good for you as an individual.
We've been telling him this for quite a while.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
What the VM is going to be isn't relevant. It's your requirement to have Windows on the desktop that is the problem.
I'll be running Windows 10 - Pro
So we're back to these options. VirtualBox as Type 1 (v6 is out iirc) or Hyper-V with a Windows 10 Pro control guest.
Hyper-V is my least recommended approach here.
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
KVM is really good for this.
Can you get local console access with KVM?
I'm guessing yes - you install a GUI into say, Fedora, setup KVM - and use the Cockpit to manage the local KVM?
Absolutely. Just like Hyper-V on Windows Pro, but free.
No need for KVM, there is full desktop GUIs to use, just like Hyper-V.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
You have Pro?
yes, The laptop I am getting is Windows 10 Pro.
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
Nope, no tools needed to learn. It's just "use". It's the easiest virtualization you've ever seen. Easier than VirtualBox, easier than Hyper-V on Windows Pro. Not much easier, as all of them are so easy you can't really make it easier. But.. THAT easy. There is no "learning curve" for KVM in this way beyond just reading what is on the screen. Someone who has never seen it before can use it at full speed without reading about it first.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
Nope, no tools needed to learn. It's just "use". It's the easiest virtualization you've ever seen. Easier than VirtualBox, easier than Hyper-V on Windows Pro. Not much easier, as all of them are so easy you can't really make it easier. But.. THAT easy. There is no "learning curve" for KVM in this way beyond just reading what is on the screen. Someone who has never seen it before can use it at full speed without reading about it first.
This I disagree with whole-heartedly.
Everything requires some learning and familiarity. Granted all solutions may be on par with the simplicity but you can't make the claim that the GUI is intuitively the easiest for "everyone without experience".
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
The end result that @WrCombs is looking for is to create VM's on this laptop to test and troubleshoot issues that are being experienced in the field.
What would be the ways to do this?
VirtualBox is one
KVM is another
Hyper-V is anotherWhat are the benefits to each?
Benefits...
VirtualBox: Type 2 and runs ON Windows as is.
Hyper-V: Type 1 and is free IF he already owns Windows Pro and he can keep Windows (but in a VM)
KVM: Type 1 and free, but he has to change his base OS to Linux and Windows moves to a VM (but manually)
