Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account
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@IRJ said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
How about turning all your dumb shit off by default MS? Then people can turn it on if they want. No need to have all this bullshit on installation.
I'll be the outsider here - for normal people, yes they should. For business use - you're right, all that shit should be off.. a bunch of it is... if you pay for the Enterprise version. So you get mega penalized by having to pay a ton more.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@IRJ said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
How about turning all your dumb shit off by default MS? Then people can turn it on if they want. No need to have all this bullshit on installation.
I'll be the outsider here - for normal people, yes they should. For business use - you're right, all that shit should be off.. a bunch of it is... if you pay for the Enterprise version. So you get mega penalized by having to pay a ton more.
This should especially be off for home users. They have no one to protect them from this.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@IRJ said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
How about turning all your dumb shit off by default MS? Then people can turn it on if they want. No need to have all this bullshit on installation.
I'll be the outsider here - for normal people, yes they should. For business use - you're right, all that shit should be off.. a bunch of it is... if you pay for the Enterprise version. So you get mega penalized by having to pay a ton more.
This should especially be off for home users. They have no one to protect them from this.
protect them from what? The idea here is to have people use the tools that MS provides (many of which are free), just like using a Chromebook taps you into all the google services.
What's the harm to someone who is not computer literate in using an MS account to log in?
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
The idea here is to have people use the tools that MS provides (many of which are free), just like using a Chromebook taps you into all the google services.
"Many of which are free." But "none of which have value, unless you pay."
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
What's the harm to someone who is not computer literate in using an MS account to log in?
That they get tricked into thinking that they have to pay for all kinds of things, and losing control of their own computer because they can't understand the security model.
Social engineering, predatory behaviour.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
And Google is not?
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@JaredBusch said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
And Google is not?
Google attempts to sell me nothing, and does not try to trick me when I go to set up a machine. Google isn't perfect, but is nothing like MS here.
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MS vs Google in this one situation...
Microsoft:
- Predatory, trying to force users into setting up confusing, unnecessary accounts to push sales.
- Set up the OS to use malware tactics to install unapproved software.
- Uses trickery and social engineering to get users to do what is against their interest.
- Breaks the known security model and puts users at risk who aren't experts.
- Adds no value through the system.
Google:
- Advertises that this is how ChromeOS works everywhere, super up front about it.
- Makes it clear and obvious what is happening.
- Does not push any malware or unapproved software through the mechanism.
- Adds value through free services.
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@JaredBusch said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
And Google is not?
Thanks, you beat me to it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@JaredBusch said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
And Google is not?
Google attempts to sell me nothing, and does not try to trick me when I go to set up a machine. Google isn't perfect, but is nothing like MS here.
Oh this is not true - they try to get you to buy more Google storage when you run out, that's a minimum. no different than apple doing the same.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@JaredBusch said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
And Google is not?
Google attempts to sell me nothing, and does not try to trick me when I go to set up a machine. Google isn't perfect, but is nothing like MS here.
Oh this is not true - they try to get you to buy more Google storage when you run out, that's a minimum. no different than apple doing the same.
They don't push it on you, though. Nothing about ChromeOS makes you use any. You have to select it and start using it. Which is like Apple. But unlike Microsoft where they offer a "neutral" platform but keep installing a non-OS component against your will.
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Your also missing that MS sells Windows as one kind of product and ChromeOS is sold as another. Windows is supposed to be a general purpose business OS (okay, they dropped business, they just push it as an entertainment OS now.) ChromeOS is meant to be a mobile platform similar to Android or iOS. Different use cases with Google giving extremely clear messaging about how it is supposed to work. Windows, however, is based on confused, deceipt, and social engineering.
You can't compare the two. Totally different in how they approach end users.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
"Force" ?
Uh, no. No one has to open their wallet to anyone.
If there is value in what Microsoft may be advertising or suggesting once the user logs in then all the power to them. The user opens their wallet and voluntarily pays.
OneDrive personal is free and comes with a built-in encrypted vault now. They bumped the default storage up to 100GB or 75GB which is more than enough for folks to back up their critical stuff.
Most folks will pay the $9 or whatever per month for O365 and get that integration too. Then their OneDrive hits 1TB and they get Microsoft Office.
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
We're working with a number of clients that have the full O365 Single Sign-On (SSO) setup in place and it's sweet. Multi Factor Authentication makes it even better with an app instead of a text. They've got a good thing going there.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
We have worked with companies that could not run their Excel spreadsheets in the G00g's version. It was just too painful. There's lots of advanced features businesses use in Excel that are not there in the other offerings including Open Source.
There are enough examples out there, I can't remember the German city's name that comes to mind, that have tried really, really hard to shuck Microsoft. They came back. It was just too painful to try and make a run at it.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
We have worked with companies that could not run their Excel spreadsheets in the G00g's version. It was just too painful.
Yes, of course. But that's also a company using Microsoft already, and one very specific MS product that they need.
If they started without Excel, likely they'd have no issue. Maybe they are the rare duck where Excel is the right product, that's fine. MS makes good tools sometimes, Excel is certainly towards the top of their list.
But it's not much of a comparison. You never talk about people with crazy complicated Calc files and how Excel can't handle it. The same problems certainly exist, just absolutely no one wants to move TO Excel, only away from it. So it creates this false sense of one way support.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
In what situation? Where you had O365 installed, and they pushed out Teams? yeah OK that was forced.
Do you have another example?Sure they put ads in the startbar for games and crap.. but they aren't actually installed until you click them, this is no different than anything else with PC's purchased with Windows on it for decades - only it was the OEMs doing it.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
There are enough examples out there, I can't remember the German city's name that comes to mind, that have tried really, really hard to shuck Microsoft. They came back. It was just too painful to try and make a run at it.
Munich, and actually they loved it. moved back from politics, not problems.
As a company that doesn't use MS Office, I can tell you, there are very, very few times that anyone uses those products out of a technical need. It's always a political one.
And even Zoho works better than Office Online.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
