Monitoring software
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@travisdh1 said in Monitoring software:
@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
What is a good (Covert) monitoring software that can tell what a user is doing? I have a client who has a need to do some montioring.
Like websites, or purely local activity?
Normally, by the time they feel monitoring needs to happen it's become an HR issue. If they need information, give it to them and be done with it.
Yes, and how are they to get the information? With monitoring software.
Of course it is an HR issue. But IT has to enable HR.
I don't agree there, not in most cases. What info from IT is going to be useful to a genuine HR department? If the person is stealing data and no one knew... then how did they know to install the monitoring?
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In this case it's a request from the owner of the company. I don't have any background as to why at this time.
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@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
In this case it's a request from the owner of the company. I don't have any background as to why at this time.
That's mostly assumed. The problem is, that doesn't relieve you of any legal responsibilities. Remember, if you do it where it is illegal, it can carry a hacking charge against you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@travisdh1 said in Monitoring software:
@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
What is a good (Covert) monitoring software that can tell what a user is doing? I have a client who has a need to do some montioring.
Like websites, or purely local activity?
Normally, by the time they feel monitoring needs to happen it's become an HR issue. If they need information, give it to them and be done with it.
Yes, and how are they to get the information? With monitoring software.
Of course it is an HR issue. But IT has to enable HR.
I don't agree there, not in most cases. What info from IT is going to be useful to a genuine HR department? If the person is stealing data and no one knew... then how did they know to install the monitoring?
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
Installing this is no different than any other IT task. IT enables the business departments to do the jobs they are tasked with.
It is not the IT department's job to question management decisions made outside of their management chain. If someone inside IT has an issues they can raise it to their direct report. But that does not negate their need to follow business decisions.
edit: I am not arguing doing something illegal. This operates on the assumption that the task is legal in your jurisdiction.
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@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
In this case it's a request from the owner of the company. I don't have any background as to why at this time.
That's mostly assumed. The problem is, that doesn't relieve you of any legal responsibilities. Remember, if you do it where it is illegal, it can carry a hacking charge against you.
It is perfectly legal in almost the entire U.S.
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
How does IT info help HR know if someone is doing their job well or not?
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
In this case it's a request from the owner of the company. I don't have any background as to why at this time.
That's mostly assumed. The problem is, that doesn't relieve you of any legal responsibilities. Remember, if you do it where it is illegal, it can carry a hacking charge against you.
It is perfectly legal in almost the entire U.S.
"Almost" is the key term there. The important part is "not all". And also "perfectly legal" means "when done very carefully."
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@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
How does IT info help HR know if someone is doing their job well or not?
This type of software is not recording IT info. It is recording user activity. How is that not helping HR?
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
Installing this is no different than any other IT task. IT enables the business departments to do the jobs they are tasked with.
Actually, generally it is the opposite of normal IT tasks in most cases. Because this normally floods HR with info that only serves to mislead them from their jobs. While, in theory, it can be helpful, I'd argue that it is almost always quite the opposite.
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
How does IT info help HR know if someone is doing their job well or not?
This type of software is not recording IT info. It is recording user activity. How is that not helping HR?
What good does that info do for HR? I'm being totally serious, how can HR knowing what buttons have been pressed assist HR in determining the value of the employee to the company's mission?
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I'll have to look into the legal issue. It's company owned equipment. Pretty sure Utah law allows it but I will check to be sure. I have 20 years in Law Enforcement Experience and from what I recall as long as it's a business computer it's game on. But I'll double check Utah Code.
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It is not the IT department's job to question management decisions made outside of their management chain.
Agreed, but IT does need to determine if it is legal for IT to perform the task.
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@ccwtech said in Monitoring software:
I'll have to look into the legal issue. It's company owned equipment. Pretty sure Utah law allows it but I will check to be sure. I have 20 years in Law Enforcement Experience and from what I recall as long as it's a business computer it's game on. But I'll double check Utah Code.
Remember that there might be questions of the jurisdiction of the company, the employee, and the IT person doing the task. Maybe they are all in one town, making it simple. But if you did this on a company laptop and that laptop traveled to NY, you might have an issue in NY as you passed through, for example.
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@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It is not the IT department's job to question management decisions made outside of their management chain.
Agreed, but IT does need to determine if it is legal for IT to perform the task.
Read the entire statement before replying to a snippet. Or do not quote a snippet out of context as I clearly had the post noted to state that the entire post is based on being a legal action.
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It is not the IT department's job to question management decisions made outside of their management chain.
Agreed, but IT does need to determine if it is legal for IT to perform the task.
Read the entire statement before replying to a snippet. Or do not quote a snippet out of context as I clearly had the post noted to state that the entire post is based on being a legal action.
You did, I was adding that IT, not management, needs to determine if that is the case for them, though.
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@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
How does IT info help HR know if someone is doing their job well or not?
This type of software is not recording IT info. It is recording user activity. How is that not helping HR?
What good does that info do for HR? I'm being totally serious, how can HR knowing what buttons have been pressed assist HR in determining the value of the employee to the company's mission?
How can you expect HR to judge this without all of the data? use gut feelings? During an investigation of something like this, HR would have gotten information from the local management of what the duties are and what is involved in performing those duties. HR can then look at the records of what was done by watching the screen replay or keystroke log data or anything else from that data feed to determine if the employee was meeting the duties as specified. Then HR can take the action as determined by company policy.
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@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
@scottalanmiller said in Monitoring software:
@jaredbusch said in Monitoring software:
It does not matter what the person is doing. It matters that management has asked for a method to collect proof of activities. How is HR supposed to do that without the IT department's assistance? They are not, unless you allow HR to install what ever they want on the network.
How does IT info help HR know if someone is doing their job well or not?
This type of software is not recording IT info. It is recording user activity. How is that not helping HR?
What good does that info do for HR? I'm being totally serious, how can HR knowing what buttons have been pressed assist HR in determining the value of the employee to the company's mission?
How can you expect HR to judge this without all of the data? use gut feelings?
This data doesn't tell that data. What a company and therefore HR cares about is results. What tools like this show are anything but results. How does this data aid HR in knowing anything useful? But it sure might mislead them into confusing "button pushing" with "being productive." Hence my concern. It preys on human irrationality to use something simple (button pushes) instead of something hard (productive) as a gauge.
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Good old nircmd.exe works great.
You can set it to take screenshots every few seconds and save them to a network drive. It even does dual-monitors.
You can launch it remotely with psexec.
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Having studied this exact thing at university as part of industrial engineering, this is the "day one" kind of mistakes that are taught to everyone as they start that field of study. Don't collect misleading metrics. If you are going to gather metrics, you'd better be damn sure that they reflect what you actually want to know, are true, and that they don't inappropriately influence (aka create gaming) by the employees.
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I'm not saying that there is absolutely no case for this kind of info, just that it is so uncommon to use it correctly and so common to use it incorrectly. And so often it is done out of a pure desire for control, and legal or ethical questions are often just ignored, even when it is legal, it's often not checked.
