FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues
-
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
I find it hard to believe that anyone outside of the ISP world has been closely following all of this for years out of personal interest. Where was the outrage in 2010, 2005? It was a very calm debate without a clear answer.
The world is a vastly different place today. Video streaming has put a HUGE strain on ISP connections, unlike almost anything we've seen before.
I'm not sure about your ISP, but Cox sold - unlimited internet for x dollars a month. that's no longer the case. Now everyone has a 1 TB cap or less - or you buy more download capacity.
-
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
if the FCC wasn't doing anything about them as was required - well that's corruption again..
Its unfortunate that Pai didnt become chair before this political climate arrived. All of this opposition is by people who have no clue what dealing with the FCC is like. They will soon find that everything the FCC does is never clear law and the reason telecom lawyers are so expensive. It doesnt even matter what the regulation says, it only matters what you can win in court.
Pai sees that these regs wont actually work, and has good ideas about how to make things work. People are shooting him first, asking questions later.
I find it hard to believe that anyone outside of the ISP world has been closely following all of this for years out of personal interest. Where was the outrage in 2010, 2005? It was a very calm debate without a clear answer.
Are you now trying to tell me that he can't fix it without removing the current laws/rules first? I find this unlikely. he could write new rules/laws and specifically say - the old rule/law no longer is valid, this takes it's place.
Correct, an example of a MUCH better approach would be one like Denmark. Literally, look to the vikings! This is the direction we should be heading...
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/mercatus-layton-alternatives-to-regulation-v1.pdf
Abstract
The diversity of regulatory structure between countries provides opportunities to compare
government’s role and performance in different settings. This study presents such an analysis,
looking at telecommunications regulation in Denmark and the United States. We show that
Denmark is a leader in telecom services both in Europe and around globe; however, whereas the
United States has the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Denmark lacks such a
centralized, proscriptive, omnipresent regulator. We find several specific ways in which US
policymakers could benefit by learning from Denmark and we recommend moving toward a
more politically cooperative, market-led, and technology-neutral framework. -
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
if the FCC wasn't doing anything about them as was required - well that's corruption again..
Its unfortunate that Pai didnt become chair before this political climate arrived. All of this opposition is by people who have no clue what dealing with the FCC is like. They will soon find that everything the FCC does is never clear law and the reason telecom lawyers are so expensive. It doesnt even matter what the regulation says, it only matters what you can win in court.
Pai sees that these regs wont actually work, and has good ideas about how to make things work. People are shooting him first, asking questions later.
I find it hard to believe that anyone outside of the ISP world has been closely following all of this for years out of personal interest. Where was the outrage in 2010, 2005? It was a very calm debate without a clear answer.
Are you now trying to tell me that he can't fix it without removing the current laws/rules first? I find this unlikely. he could write new rules/laws and specifically say - the old rule/law no longer is valid, this takes it's place.
Correct, an example of a MUCH better approach would be one like Denmark. Literally, look to the vikings! This is the direction we should be heading...
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/mercatus-layton-alternatives-to-regulation-v1.pdf
Abstract
The diversity of regulatory structure between countries provides opportunities to compare
government’s role and performance in different settings. This study presents such an analysis,
looking at telecommunications regulation in Denmark and the United States. We show that
Denmark is a leader in telecom services both in Europe and around globe; however, whereas the
United States has the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Denmark lacks such a
centralized, proscriptive, omnipresent regulator. We find several specific ways in which US
policymakers could benefit by learning from Denmark and we recommend moving toward a
more politically cooperative, market-led, and technology-neutral framework.I think we can all agree that we want the high lighted stuff.
-
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
if the FCC wasn't doing anything about them as was required - well that's corruption again..
Its unfortunate that Pai didnt become chair before this political climate arrived. All of this opposition is by people who have no clue what dealing with the FCC is like. They will soon find that everything the FCC does is never clear law and the reason telecom lawyers are so expensive. It doesnt even matter what the regulation says, it only matters what you can win in court.
Pai sees that these regs wont actually work, and has good ideas about how to make things work. People are shooting him first, asking questions later.
I find it hard to believe that anyone outside of the ISP world has been closely following all of this for years out of personal interest. Where was the outrage in 2010, 2005? It was a very calm debate without a clear answer.
Are you now trying to tell me that he can't fix it without removing the current laws/rules first? I find this unlikely. he could write new rules/laws and specifically say - the old rule/law no longer is valid, this takes it's place.
Correct, an example of a MUCH better approach would be one like Denmark. Literally, look to the vikings! This is the direction we should be heading...
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/mercatus-layton-alternatives-to-regulation-v1.pdf
Abstract
The diversity of regulatory structure between countries provides opportunities to compare
government’s role and performance in different settings. This study presents such an analysis,
looking at telecommunications regulation in Denmark and the United States. We show that
Denmark is a leader in telecom services both in Europe and around globe; however, whereas the
United States has the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Denmark lacks such a
centralized, proscriptive, omnipresent regulator. We find several specific ways in which US
policymakers could benefit by learning from Denmark and we recommend moving toward a
more politically cooperative, market-led, and technology-neutral framework.I think we can all agree that we want the high lighted stuff.
The synopsis is the the FCC has fulfilled its obligation of liberalizing the telecom market and that its staff and resources should be reorganized elsewhere. By removing regulation they propelled the country as a global leader in internet access in what is otherwise a difficult geographical area to serve.
They have many internet providers and one large provider that was stated owned until being privatized in the late nineties. By removing all the regulation they went from nearly last to nearly first in the world for internet access per capita and internet speeds/pricing.
Because there are no regulations and easements to support the monopolies who are "throttling" in the US today, they fostered competition and even today it is easy to enter and compete in the market.
We read about them a lot in recent years while researching FTTH (fiber to residential) and its easy to see how, even with big $$$ its nearly impossible to transition from WISP to an actual fiber provider.
Just an alternative point of view to the idea that the internet will die without being "Saved" by the FCC and regulations.
-
The throttling has begun!
-
@dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
The throttling has begun!
Your post was number 666.... the end has begun...
-
I wonder how this is going to affect the media industry with them being able to legally block content
-
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
I wonder how this is going to affect the media industry with them being able to legally block content
You won't know because you'll never see the content from the media. The "Fake News" outlets of the world will literally be closed down because they'll be stuck to traditional mediums.
-
@dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
I wonder how this is going to affect the media industry with them being able to legally block content
You won't know because you'll never see the content from the media. The "Fake News" outlets of the world will literally be closed down because they'll be stuck to traditional mediums.
Traditional meaning what? FOX and CNN?
-
@bigbear you seem to also be missing the entire point of NN rules that were enacted in 2015. Because the US has granted ISPs unlimited monopoly power on internet infrastructure, there can be no free market.
Because the ISPs have zero competition, these rules need to exist.
And seriously, you think Pai is doing a good job? That he has your best interest in mind with this? You are either trolling or completely irrational.
You also think Trump is a good President and not a lifelong conman and fraudster? -
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
I wonder how this is going to affect the media industry with them being able to legally block content
You won't know because you'll never see the content from the media. The "Fake News" outlets of the world will literally be closed down because they'll be stuck to traditional mediums.
Traditional meaning what? FOX and CNN?
Traditional as in OTA tv or new papers. Digital outlets (websites) can (and likely) will be buried in legal fees / bottlenecked performance for any person trying to access a website that contains objectionable content to the Corporate overlords.
-
@momurda lets avoid personal attacks.
-
@momurda said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear you seem to also be missing the entire point of NN rules that were enacted in 2015. Because the US has granted ISPs unlimited monopoly power on internet infrastructure, there can be no free market.
Because the ISPs have zero competition, these rules need to exist.
And seriously, you think Pai is doing a good job? That he has your best interest in mind with this? You are either trolling or completely irrational.
You also think Trump is a good President and not a lifelong conman and fraudster?For some reason my 15+ years experience dealing directly with the FCC and running small ISP's carries no weight and people continue to assume I dont understand the very basic premise of Net Neutrality. I have provided enough commentary above I think to support my thinking.
I have no desire to get into a political debate. I do think everyone involved in the recent election cycle belongs in prison for one reason or another. My politics are more along the line of Ron Swanson.
Pai isnt a political figure and everything I have seen him attempt over the years makes sense.
The monopolies you are referring to were created and continue to thrive on regulation. I referenced Denmark as a very ideal alternative to the way we are doing things in the USA.
This isnt about politics.
-
The Major problem I have with Net Neutrality is that it doesnt appear on the Pyramid of Greatness.
Lots of good views have been expressed here today. I would have to say even the argument with @scottalanmiller miller last night was unmerited as this "Binge On" appears to be nothing more on a technical level than automatically enabling 480p streaming. As scott suggested reviews of the codec I found online appear to show it offers no added optimization. So the whole argument may have been mute.
-
Against all odds we may see a resurgence of the one thing we never thought we'd see again (not Disco)... Blockbuster?
-
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
Against all odds we may see a resurgence of the one thing we never thought we'd see again (not Disco)... Blockbuster?
I knew something good would have to come out of NN!
-
@tim_g said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@wirestyle22 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
Against all odds we may see a resurgence of the one thing we never thought we'd see again (not Disco)... Blockbuster?
I knew something good would have to come out of NN!
Where you can find rare Japanese-release games which lift your spirits but then you take them out of the case and see that someone scratched it to shit. Don't even ask if they have another copy do you know how rare this is?
-
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
if the FCC wasn't doing anything about them as was required - well that's corruption again..
Its unfortunate that Pai didnt become chair before this political climate arrived. All of this opposition is by people who have no clue what dealing with the FCC is like. They will soon find that everything the FCC does is never clear law and the reason telecom lawyers are so expensive. It doesnt even matter what the regulation says, it only matters what you can win in court.
Pai sees that these regs wont actually work, and has good ideas about how to make things work. People are shooting him first, asking questions later.
I find it hard to believe that anyone outside of the ISP world has been closely following all of this for years out of personal interest. Where was the outrage in 2010, 2005? It was a very calm debate without a clear answer.
Are you now trying to tell me that he can't fix it without removing the current laws/rules first? I find this unlikely. he could write new rules/laws and specifically say - the old rule/law no longer is valid, this takes it's place.
Correct, an example of a MUCH better approach would be one like Denmark. Literally, look to the vikings! This is the direction we should be heading...
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/mercatus-layton-alternatives-to-regulation-v1.pdf
Abstract
The diversity of regulatory structure between countries provides opportunities to compare
government’s role and performance in different settings. This study presents such an analysis,
looking at telecommunications regulation in Denmark and the United States. We show that
Denmark is a leader in telecom services both in Europe and around globe; however, whereas the
United States has the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Denmark lacks such a
centralized, proscriptive, omnipresent regulator. We find several specific ways in which US
policymakers could benefit by learning from Denmark and we recommend moving toward a
more politically cooperative, market-led, and technology-neutral framework.I think we can all agree that we want the high lighted stuff.
The synopsis is the the FCC has fulfilled its obligation of liberalizing the telecom market and that its staff and resources should be reorganized elsewhere. By removing regulation they propelled the country as a global leader in internet access in what is otherwise a difficult geographical area to serve.
They have many internet providers and one large provider that was stated owned until being privatized in the late nineties. By removing all the regulation they went from nearly last to nearly first in the world for internet access per capita and internet speeds/pricing.
Because there are no regulations and easements to support the monopolies who are "throttling" in the US today, they fostered competition and even today it is easy to enter and compete in the market.
We read about them a lot in recent years while researching FTTH (fiber to residential) and its easy to see how, even with big $$$ its nearly impossible to transition from WISP to an actual fiber provider.
Just an alternative point of view to the idea that the internet will die without being "Saved" by the FCC and regulations.
Well - Scott and were talking off line - The reality is, even in Belgium, the users of their internet can't know that they aren't being filtered or throttled.
This is something as a user you just can't know. At best someone else, say in the US, tells you to visit a website and you in belgium finds out you can't connect, then you know you're being blocked.. now to find out if by the ISP or the website itself.
-
@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:
Lots of good views have been expressed here today. I would have to say even the argument with @scottalanmiller miller last night was unmerited as this "Binge On" appears to be nothing more on a technical level than automatically enabling 480p streaming. As scott suggested reviews of the codec I found online appear to show it offers no added optimization. So the whole argument may have been mute.
Yeah, from what I can tell, it's just some serious weirdness. I can't figure out what it actually does.
-
On a side note, everyone hates E3 for their new "mortgage pricing model".
Now everyone can hate their ISP's just as much. . .
