Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Right. Once you can do fast full backups from XenServer natively, that will be much preferable. With the bug in XenServer exports, tools like XenOrchestra are slow.
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@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Right. Once you can do fast full backups from XenServer natively, that will be much preferable. With the bug in XenServer exports, tools like XenOrchestra are slow.
No, even then I don't like that approach
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Right. Once you can do fast full backups from XenServer natively, that will be much preferable. With the bug in XenServer exports, tools like XenOrchestra are slow.
No, even then I don't like that approach
Especially for a larrrrrgggge VM.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Right. Once you can do fast full backups from XenServer natively, that will be much preferable. With the bug in XenServer exports, tools like XenOrchestra are slow.
No, even then I don't like that approach
I don't blame ya, and I'd always keep a known good export of each VM. It took ~3 days for an export of our backup VM. I realize this is only a gigabit network here, but it didn't even keep that saturated. Could be a real issue if you want a weekly backup of anything of a decent size.
Just for the record, the server is a Dell PowerEdge R510 running XS 6.5, Perk 6 RAID10 with 8x1TB Dell drives, 32GB RAM. The backup VM is assigned 1288GB total (system drive and storage drive), 2 CPU and 2GB RAM. The image was taken with a XenOrchestra VM with 2CPU, 1GB RAM. Being backed up to a Dell T3500 workstation running XS 7, and the only VM on it is storage for XenOrchestra backups. They do communicate at the full 1Gbps.
So yes, I agree that exporting the VM is the right way to go about it, but in the real world it might not be a viable option.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Nice way to cherry pick your words to fit your PoV.
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
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@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
My big question for everyone testing and/or running the Veem on Linux, how fast is it compared to the standard Xen Orchestra backups?
Very, very different things. One is an in OS agent hitting the file system. The other is a platform agent imaging the storage system.
Sorry, @scottalanmiller, but duh. If I can get away with only doing the slow export from XO on a single VM instead of all of them, that'd be a good thing, at least until XS gets their slow export bug fixed. Figured I'd ask before taking the time to go test everything myself.
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
Nice way to cherry pick your words to fit your PoV.
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
By full I mean the entire OS.
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I hit 140 Mbits /sec on my system here when the veeam backups run...
Takes ~70GB of data and compresses it down to 40GB, and then I keep the incrementals for 7 days... Altogether, I run about 50 GB for the backup.
*this is a personal system with 3 users hosted on KVM.
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@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
That's why a lot of my initial discussions were on image backups.
As a SMB (or SOHO as @scottalanmiller would say) we have low storage servers here. So in a small amount of time I can get things back up and running as they were. If we had a ton of data it would be a different story altogether.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
Maybe I'm reading wrong. This solution does incremental also. It's pretty much exactly like Veeam endpoint. Creates a recovery ISO, does a full data backup, then the rest of the week does incremental. You pick the day for full backups.
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I can't speak for JB's response, but my response was in reference to:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
As I read it, this response was generic, not specifically related to the OP.
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@BRRABill said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
That's why a lot of my initial discussions were on image backups.
As a SMB (or SOHO as @scottalanmiller would say) we have low storage servers here. So in a small amount of time I can get things back up and running as they were. If we had a ton of data it would be a different story altogether.
Linux helps a lot with this. I can either make a template and clone it which takes about 1-2 seconds to finish. I can also run virt-builder and inject ssh keys and scripts to build the image the way I want. I usually do a mix. I make a template, then use virt-sysprep to prepare for cloning and then I can run virt-customize --update --selinux-relabel to update the packages in the image so it's always ready to clone.
So I can have a new full VM up and running in 5-7 seconds (SELinux takes some time to relabel everything, otherwise it would be 1-2 seconds).
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@BRRABill said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
That's why a lot of my initial discussions were on image backups.
As a SMB (or SOHO as @scottalanmiller would say) we have low storage servers here. So in a small amount of time I can get things back up and running as they were. If we had a ton of data it would be a different story altogether.
You assume that image backups are faster. Maybe they are, in some cases, but only barely. Modern DevOps style backups are insanely fast.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
I can't speak for JB's response, but my response was in reference to:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
I'm not a fan of agentless full backups. I prefer rapid cloning and only restoring needed data.
As I read it, this response was generic, not specifically related to the OP.
Correct
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
Yes, build the OS from a standard template for even greater speed, more repeatable processes and less data to transfer. Unless you have no bottlenecks from the backup storage to the live storage, your way is slower. You have to wait for more to be restored.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
Yes, build the OS from a standard template for even greater speed, more repeatable processes and less data to transfer. Unless you have no bottlenecks from the backup storage to the live storage, your way is slower. You have to wait for more to be restored.
This assumes the configurations can all be done via scripts - granted in Linux based OSes that's almost always the case, but not always in windows.
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@stacksofplates said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@BRRABill said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
That's why a lot of my initial discussions were on image backups.
As a SMB (or SOHO as @scottalanmiller would say) we have low storage servers here. So in a small amount of time I can get things back up and running as they were. If we had a ton of data it would be a different story altogether.
Linux helps a lot with this. I can either make a template and clone it which takes about 1-2 seconds to finish. I can also run virt-builder and inject ssh keys and scripts to build the image the way I want. I usually do a mix. I make a template, then use virt-sysprep to prepare for cloning and then I can run virt-customize --update --selinux-relabel to update the packages in the image so it's always ready to clone.
So I can have a new full VM up and running in 5-7 seconds (SELinux takes some time to relabel everything, otherwise it would be 1-2 seconds).
Most SMBs don't have storage subsystems that fast, but I get your point.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@stacksofplates said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@BRRABill said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
@JaredBusch said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
No one with a brain is a fan of agentless full backups. Conveniently, real backup solutions do not need to make constant full backups. Veeam calls it forward incremental-forever, and while I do not know Unitrends' name, I know they do it also.
This is also what I like to do - incrementals.
Scott - you're saying that you prefer to completely disregard the OS and only backup the data - OK fine, but this makes full recovery take longer as you have to install an OS, then configure it, then restore the data. In Dev Osp that's fine, but most of use don't have Dev Ops setups. I suppose many workloads could look at moving that direction, even in SMB, I'm just curious about the skills required to manage/maintain it.
That's why a lot of my initial discussions were on image backups.
As a SMB (or SOHO as @scottalanmiller would say) we have low storage servers here. So in a small amount of time I can get things back up and running as they were. If we had a ton of data it would be a different story altogether.
Linux helps a lot with this. I can either make a template and clone it which takes about 1-2 seconds to finish. I can also run virt-builder and inject ssh keys and scripts to build the image the way I want. I usually do a mix. I make a template, then use virt-sysprep to prepare for cloning and then I can run virt-customize --update --selinux-relabel to update the packages in the image so it's always ready to clone.
So I can have a new full VM up and running in 5-7 seconds (SELinux takes some time to relabel everything, otherwise it would be 1-2 seconds).
Most SMBs don't have storage subsystems that fast, but I get your point.
That's on a DL380 G6 with refurb 300GB 10K SAS. It's fast no matter what you use.
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It's a 15 GB qcow2 with only the OS (which is way overkill for single service servers). The speed is coming from separating the data from the OS, not from the storage.
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@stacksofplates said in Veeam Agent for Linux is now available!:
It's a 15 GB qcow2 with only the OS (which is way overkill for single service servers). The speed is coming from separating the data from the OS, not from the storage.
how small is the VM you're cloning?
When I've cloned a 40 GB Windows install, it took more than 1-2 second, more like a min+ not that even a min matters here compared to installing a whole Windows server OS and patches, etc.
