Never Let the Vendor Set Up a Server
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
All my vendors charge the same day rate regardless of who is doing the work or what the work is.
So they charge the same for racking a server as they would to setup exchange do network configs? Seems like they are ripping you off.
Or under-charging me for Exchange
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Comparing installing a hypervisor to adjusting the mirrors on a car is quite frankly ridiculous
The point is that personal customizations that are part of ongoing operations need to be done by the operator, not the factory. To run a server, you need to understand the hypervisor and maintain it. If you drive a car, you need to operate and tweak the mirrors. Both are trivial tasks but ones that need to be done.
True, if you're not the one who understands the hypervisor for your company, then the vendor you bring in to install/configure and manage the hypervisor should be the one setting it up as well.
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Ideally I want a vendor that I can trust to set it up right. I don't know of such a vendor. Or rather I don't know of a vendor that I trust, rightly or wrongly. So I end up doing loads myself and getting stressed by long hours and lack of progress
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Ideally I want a vendor that I can trust to set it up right. I don't know of such a vendor. Or rather I don't know of a vendor that I trust, rightly or wrongly. So I end up doing loads myself and getting stressed by long hours and lack of progress
It really sounds like you use vendors to do a lot of the IT work for you. Why not partner with a GOOD MSP?
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I don't know a good MSP.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I don't know a good MSP.
You might have to find someone who isn't local for that I guess - though non local won't be of much help when it comes to turning screws or mounting servers.
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I'm recruiting at the moment, so that should help. I don't trust outsiders that much. My old boss said I was a control freak, but I think that is slightly unfair.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I don't trust outsiders that much.
It is borderline paranoia that you don't trust outsiders much... But I find borderline paranoia a relatively safe place to be some times...
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@dafyre said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
I don't trust outsiders that much.
It is borderline paranoia that you don't trust outsiders much... But I find borderline paranoia a relatively safe place to be some times...
Really? Why would you trust people you don't know? Granted you do at some point have to move from the non-trust to the trust zone, and that normally starts, in situations like this, are with a contract in place.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Isn't the issue here that Dell set the servers up wrong? Or that someone has failed to check that the RAID config they ordered hadn't actually been setup? These seem like pretty basic mistakes that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. A better thread title might be "Never Let Dell Set Up a Server"
There are many issues here. Including that Dell (or whoever) doesn't offer the needed configurations, that they then get it wrong, that someone doesn't check, that there is no process for repeatability, there is no verification of knowledge, documentation and supplies, etc.
There is nothing here specific to Dell. The mistake is in basically skipping the step of setting up a new machine upon delivery and just using it "as it arrives." You wouldn't do that with a car or a laptop, why with an enterprise server that lots of things depend on?
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
All my vendors charge the same day rate regardless of who is doing the work or what the work is.
So they charge the same for racking a server as they would to setup exchange do network configs? Seems like they are ripping you off.
I don't see how else that would work. If you only need a minute of racking and hundreds of hours of other stuff sure, it's not worth the effort to bring in other people. But if you have any amount of this happening there is no way to do this without being ripped off. You are stuck paying engineering rates for physical bench work.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Or under-charging me for Exchange
Possible, of course, but that just means that either they are not financially viable and while you are getting a deal, it won't last and you will have churn. More likely it means you are getting unskilled screwdriver guys that you are paying for Exchange work.
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@Dashrender said:
True, if you're not the one who understands the hypervisor for your company, then the vendor you bring in to install/configure and manage the hypervisor should be the one setting it up as well.
Right, it's still IT that needs to do it. Just your IT or that portion of your IT is outsourced. Nothing wrong there. That's how I advise it for most SMBs. When I say "your IT" I mean to imply that this likely means "your MSP / outsourcer."
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I don't know a good MSP.
Two secrets to that that we've discussed a lot...
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Never look locally. Don't avoid local, but don't choose based on it. The chances that the good vendor is local to you is near zero. Places like Manhattan and London have better chances than most places, but locality is not a valuable discriminating factor for IT services.
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Don't use resellers for IT support or decision making because their interests do not align with yours.
There are tons of bad MSPs out there. There are tons of good ones too. There is no magic to finding a good one. But there are easy ways that people often practically force themselves into bad ones.
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@Dashrender said:
You might have to find someone who isn't local for that I guess - though non local won't be of much help when it comes to turning screws or mounting servers.
Sure they are. As that part is not IT work but bench work, it is absolutely trivial for distant MSPs to bring on low cost remote hands to do that work. There is no IT skills needed there to do rack and stack and only typical home user skills needed to set up things like ILO and iDRAC. That's all that that role needs (or should) be doing.
Not only does this work, it often actually helps. Having too much skill level in your data center rackers can lead to them attempting to do work that really needs to be done by someone with clear IT oversight.
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@scottalanmiller said:
When I say "your IT" I mean to imply that this likely means "your MSP / outsourcer."
This comes back to definition of vendor/MSP/outsourcer and I go round in circles trying to figure out what you mean. Other than to say, my vendors are generally resellers and what I'd call consultants.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
When I say "your IT" I mean to imply that this likely means "your MSP / outsourcer."
This comes back to definition of vendor/MSP/outsourcer and I go round in circles trying to figure out what you mean. Other than to say, my vendors are generally resellers and what I'd call consultants.
Not really. However you define it, you are mixing the people who sell you things with the people who give you advice - no matter what they are called those two are oil and water and should never mix. The definition isn't important, the roles are.
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No, I'm mixing the people who sell me things with the people who install things. We're not talking about advice.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
No, I'm mixing the people who sell me things with the people who install things. We're not talking about advice.
Oh, you calling the reseller the MSP? That's REALLY confusing. Okay, that's just not the case. MSP and consultants... those overlap and are great areas. If you are talking about sales people the terms are reseller or VAR (which is just an abbreviation of reseller.) Totally not MSP by any definition.
So you are saying that you've never found a reseller that you like? That's different. No one discussing MSPs is talking about that role where you hear us use that term. There is a ton of grey area in these terms depending on who is talking, but MSP and Reseller don't overlap. Many MSPs are also resellers, but the two roles are very clearly different and people never refer to reselling as "Managed Services".
So the company doing the installation, though, is doing IT work instead of you and/or your MSP?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
We're not talking about advice.
Sort of, we are. Because the ongoing IT support, unless it is insanely basic and you are directing every little bit of it (which would defeat any value) is a form of advice. It is micro advice rather than macro (advice on RAID setup or whatever rather than architecture or risk mitigation) but still a form of advice. Unless the roles are completely scripted.
Which you could do with a guy doing a rack and stack, but the effort to guide him would easily be ten times or more the effort of doing it yourself.
