OneDrive Conundrum With Windows 10
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Why the heck is a placeholder around 100KB? That's crazy. 1KB should be plenty. Maybe 4KB at most if there is a lot of meta-data. And at 4KB that is a lot of placeholders that could be downloaded.
Paul has some pretty crazy ideas that I've heard recently.
I'll admit I made up the number, I don't have a transcript of the podcast to pull from.. but the idea is what I was going after. Due to the size of the placeholder, and easy to reach number of files on OneDrive could easily make these micro tablets run out of space just holding placeholders.
Why is that a reason to not offer them? Clearly for those users, the whole system doesn't work. But nearly everyone, they work great. So with placeholders, everyone wins, who loses?
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@dafyre said:
@Dashrender I don't understand why not just let the client connect to the cloud storage and download the files you want to edit, and then automagically upload them every time you save?
I hear what you are saying - and frankly I don't know....
I can't say that I've tried what you are talking about, I do have both normal OneDrive and OneDrive for Business, but I haven't tried opening an Excel file from OD that isn't synced on my PC...The only thing I can think is that pulling a directory structure down each time you want to know what files are were in OD might be a rather large amount of data. I'm not sure if OD could be made to constantly sync a filetree listing, instead of a placeholder... but the problem with that is that things that just work with Windows Explorer wouldn't know how to deal with that listing.. which is why placeholders were created in the first place.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Why the heck is a placeholder around 100KB? That's crazy. 1KB should be plenty. Maybe 4KB at most if there is a lot of meta-data. And at 4KB that is a lot of placeholders that could be downloaded.
Paul has some pretty crazy ideas that I've heard recently.
I'll admit I made up the number, I don't have a transcript of the podcast to pull from.. but the idea is what I was going after. Due to the size of the placeholder, and easy to reach number of files on OneDrive could easily make these micro tablets run out of space just holding placeholders.
Why is that a reason to not offer them? Clearly for those users, the whole system doesn't work. But nearly everyone, they work great. So with placeholders, everyone wins, who loses?
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Why the heck is a placeholder around 100KB? That's crazy. 1KB should be plenty. Maybe 4KB at most if there is a lot of meta-data. And at 4KB that is a lot of placeholders that could be downloaded.
Paul has some pretty crazy ideas that I've heard recently.
I'll admit I made up the number, I don't have a transcript of the podcast to pull from.. but the idea is what I was going after. Due to the size of the placeholder, and easy to reach number of files on OneDrive could easily make these micro tablets run out of space just holding placeholders.
Why is that a reason to not offer them? Clearly for those users, the whole system doesn't work. But nearly everyone, they work great. So with placeholders, everyone wins, who loses?
Micro tablet users lose, because it would simply be broken, and there's no telling if that might break other things.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
what's less space?
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
what's less space?
Place holders
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
what's less space?
Placeholders. That's why Paul's explanation makes no sense.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Why the heck is a placeholder around 100KB? That's crazy. 1KB should be plenty. Maybe 4KB at most if there is a lot of meta-data. And at 4KB that is a lot of placeholders that could be downloaded.
Paul has some pretty crazy ideas that I've heard recently.
I'll admit I made up the number, I don't have a transcript of the podcast to pull from.. but the idea is what I was going after. Due to the size of the placeholder, and easy to reach number of files on OneDrive could easily make these micro tablets run out of space just holding placeholders.
Why is that a reason to not offer them? Clearly for those users, the whole system doesn't work. But nearly everyone, they work great. So with placeholders, everyone wins, who loses?
Micro tablet users lose, because it would simply be broken, and there's no telling if that might break other things.
I don't see them losing. Paul's explanation showed them winning. When do they ever lose with placeholders? Sometimes they win (95% of the time) and sometimes they are a draw but never do they lose.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Why the heck is a placeholder around 100KB? That's crazy. 1KB should be plenty. Maybe 4KB at most if there is a lot of meta-data. And at 4KB that is a lot of placeholders that could be downloaded.
Paul has some pretty crazy ideas that I've heard recently.
I'll admit I made up the number, I don't have a transcript of the podcast to pull from.. but the idea is what I was going after. Due to the size of the placeholder, and easy to reach number of files on OneDrive could easily make these micro tablets run out of space just holding placeholders.
Why is that a reason to not offer them? Clearly for those users, the whole system doesn't work. But nearly everyone, they work great. So with placeholders, everyone wins, who loses?
Micro tablet users lose, because it would simply be broken, and there's no telling if that might break other things.
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
what's less space?
Placeholders. That's why Paul's explanation makes no sense.
what part of it does not make sense?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And it's still less space either way. It seems like they are saying taking up more space is better.
what's less space?
Placeholders. That's why Paul's explanation makes no sense.
what part of it does not make sense?
All of it. He describes the upside to placeholders, that they use far less space than the original files which is the entire idea. He explains why tablet users with limited space are huge winners. Nothing negative in there at all. How did his explanation of how great it was for people with limited space turn into a reason not to do it?
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
now that I agree with. The problem is non technical people won't understand what a placeholder is.. and when they tell it no and can't find their files like you can't they'll freak out. Or when they use their microtablet and it doesn't have enough space to hold all of their placeholders and they are out of storage but can't figure out why because placeholders I think are hidden files (though maybe not - they might actually lie to the file system and tell you you have 10.3TB of data HA!)
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@scottalanmiller said:
All of it. He describes the upside to placeholders, that they use far less space than the original files which is the entire idea. He explains why tablet users with limited space are huge winners. Nothing negative in there at all. How did his explanation of how great it was for people with limited space turn into a reason not to do it?
because of the situation where on a microtablet you only have 1 GB of free diskspace, but placeholders require 2 GB, now the device is out of space, and you still can't see everything that is in OD.
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
now that I agree with. The problem is non technical people won't understand what a placeholder is.. and when they tell it no and can't find their files like you can't they'll freak out. Or when they use their microtablet and it doesn't have enough space to hold all of their placeholders and they are out of storage but can't figure out why because placeholders I think are hidden files (though maybe not - they might actually lie to the file system and tell you you have 10.3TB of data HA!)
All it has to do is say "not enough space." Problem solved.
Don't they freak out without placeholders for the same reasons?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
All of it. He describes the upside to placeholders, that they use far less space than the original files which is the entire idea. He explains why tablet users with limited space are huge winners. Nothing negative in there at all. How did his explanation of how great it was for people with limited space turn into a reason not to do it?
because of the situation where on a microtablet you only have 1 GB of free diskspace, but placeholders require 2 GB, now the device is out of space, and you still can't see everything that is in OD.
How is that bad compared to what they are doing instead.
I still see zero downsides. Every issue with placeholders is worse without them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
now that I agree with. The problem is non technical people won't understand what a placeholder is.. and when they tell it no and can't find their files like you can't they'll freak out. Or when they use their microtablet and it doesn't have enough space to hold all of their placeholders and they are out of storage but can't figure out why because placeholders I think are hidden files (though maybe not - they might actually lie to the file system and tell you you have 10.3TB of data HA!)
All it has to do is say "not enough space." Problem solved.
Don't they freak out without placeholders for the same reasons?
No, because placeholders only worked for Windows 7 for a very short time, and today are only available on Windows 8.1. So the common person is used to the old/new method.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
now that I agree with. The problem is non technical people won't understand what a placeholder is.. and when they tell it no and can't find their files like you can't they'll freak out. Or when they use their microtablet and it doesn't have enough space to hold all of their placeholders and they are out of storage but can't figure out why because placeholders I think are hidden files (though maybe not - they might actually lie to the file system and tell you you have 10.3TB of data HA!)
All it has to do is say "not enough space." Problem solved.
Don't they freak out without placeholders for the same reasons?
No, because placeholders only worked for Windows 7 for a very short time, and today are only available on Windows 8.1. So the common person is used to the old/new method.
I don't follow this logic. People are used to all different things right now and they are or are not freaking out? So they are going to only freak out when things get better?
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Before I can continue this conversation I need to see for myself that I can't "find/see" a file in my one drive that isn't synced (OneDrive, not OneDrive for Business).
I'll be back.
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@Dashrender said:
Before I can continue this conversation I need to see for myself that I can't "find/see" a file in my one drive that isn't synced (OneDrive, not OneDrive for Business).
I'll be back.
Do you have or not have placeholders?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Yeah but they couldn't sync all there files anyway if placeholders wouldn't fit. Just make options. Maybe full or place holder as well as selective sync would be a better option than removing it.
now that I agree with. The problem is non technical people won't understand what a placeholder is.. and when they tell it no and can't find their files like you can't they'll freak out. Or when they use their microtablet and it doesn't have enough space to hold all of their placeholders and they are out of storage but can't figure out why because placeholders I think are hidden files (though maybe not - they might actually lie to the file system and tell you you have 10.3TB of data HA!)
All it has to do is say "not enough space." Problem solved.
Don't they freak out without placeholders for the same reasons?
No, because placeholders only worked for Windows 7 for a very short time, and today are only available on Windows 8.1. So the common person is used to the old/new method.
So I'm just going to keep XP then because that's what most common people are used too...
