Leasing IT equipment - worth it or not
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@MattSpeller said:
@Dashrender said:
This is one I have a hard time with. You lease equipment for 3 years. You receive equipment, if you're lucky you can deploy it all on day one.. but when the lease is up, you have to start that transition normally at least 2 months before it expires to make sure you send it back on time.
Ahhh you need the special sauce
You lease 1/3 of your equipment every year. Prevents epic brown pants month(s) trying to deploy a whole company's worth of stuff.
That too. Your entire shop should not be leased as a single, enormous entity all at once, most likely.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That too. Your entire shop should not be leased as a single, enormous entity all at once, most likely.
Good lord, I'd die if that was the case. Doing 1/3 usually took a month or three. No real rush as I got Dell to stagger the deliveries so I didn't have a ton of boxes (and pressure) from everyone.
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So I've been involved on the leasing end of the firm that leases out gear and there are lease types that don't have these problems. Month to month forever leases, as an example, was nearly all that we did. Customers had to commit to say three month minimums on gear and after that it was month to month. They could lease for as long as they wanted. The cost even decreased (very slowly) over time. There was never a time that they were without support and never a panic to replace the gear. Also, no $1 buy out options or anything like that.
So effectively nothing like the assumptions that are often associated with leases. Customers loved it because their costs become completely predictable and their agility went up, not down.
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A great example we've been through a single iteration with is our mopier. We purchased one in 2008, We replaced it in 2013. We only replaced it because the old machine was pretty much horrible since day one, and near replacement time administrator was just becoming fed up with the problems.
We have a tendency to run equipment into the ground here. That said - Scott seems to be of that idea as well. For example, I recently had a post here talking about replacing my now 8 year old WiFi system. Scott and many others chimed in and said - be prepared to replace but don't until it fails.
This type of thinking kind of flies in the face of leasing unless you expect the life of the equipment is roughly the same as the life of the equipment.
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What is a mopier?
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@MattSpeller said:
@Dashrender said:
And if I worked for any other company - that might be the case, but here it's not. A single one time and then forget about it is the mentality I deal with.
I'm not sure if that means that we are always struggling to make ends meet, or someone just looks at things from a perspective that just isn't compatible with the reality of how our business runs (or should run).
It will really depend on your business environment.
I had the finance dept very nervous of huge cash outlays because reasons I didn't care about. They suggested leasing to me and the more research I did the better it looked. Prevented the huge cash haemorrhage that finance dreaded and everyone won.
In a similar situation, management would rather take a loan than a lease, in my case.
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@Dashrender said:
This type of thinking kind of flies in the face of leasing unless you expect the life of the equipment is roughly the same as the life of the equipment.
Not the leasing that I have worked with. We had customers leasing ten year old gear regularly. The lease costs were very low and they had the peace of mind that the lease company was there to deal with it when it broke from old age.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What is a mopier?
Multi fuction copier - those giant things most offices have these days that copy, print, fax, scan, etc.
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@Dashrender It takes a pretty big shift in vision in a company. IT stuff needs to be seen as the lube the gets the company to run more efficiently. Then it's like an oil change for your car. You can push it out longer (than X# years) but it's not healthy for your engine (employees, partners, anyone your company depends on etc).
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@Dashrender said:
In a similar situation, management would rather take a loan than a lease, in my case.
Sure, but that is purely a financial decision. You lose lease benefits that are often included like guaranteed support. Basically the company is attempting to structure their own lease. They would rather pay interest to a third party than to the vendor. An odd financial decision since there is zero pricing leverage then on either side. The bank has to make profit, the vendor has to make profit and you've added a third party to pay out to that was unnecessary.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This type of thinking kind of flies in the face of leasing unless you expect the life of the equipment is roughly the same as the life of the equipment.
Not the leasing that I have worked with. We had customers leasing ten year old gear regularly. The lease costs were very low and they had the peace of mind that the lease company was there to deal with it when it broke from old age.
What happened when it broke before the lease was expired?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This type of thinking kind of flies in the face of leasing unless you expect the life of the equipment is roughly the same as the life of the equipment.
Not the leasing that I have worked with. We had customers leasing ten year old gear regularly. The lease costs were very low and they had the peace of mind that the lease company was there to deal with it when it broke from old age.
What happened when it broke before the lease was expired?
Same as leasing a car - it gets fixed. That's part of the value of a lease, you don't have to worry about the equipment breaking as you are leasing a working product. You don't have to worry about support periods any longer.
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@Dashrender said:
What happened when it broke before the lease was expired?
We always got warranty the same length as the lease, you'd need to consult the leasing terms carefully
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
In a similar situation, management would rather take a loan than a lease, in my case.
Sure, but that is purely a financial decision. You lose lease benefits that are often included like guaranteed support. Basically the company is attempting to structure their own lease. They would rather pay interest to a third party than to the vendor. An odd financial decision since there is zero pricing leverage then on either side. The bank has to make profit, the vendor has to make profit and you've added a third party to pay out to that was unnecessary.
I'm lost - Only on the mopier have I seen a leasing company provide any support for equipment that was a part of a least, then again I've never leased non new equipment for more than 3 years, which was the same term as the factory warranty on the equipment.
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@MattSpeller said:
@Dashrender said:
What happened when it broke before the lease was expired?
We always got warranty the same length as the lease, you'd need to consult the leasing terms carefully
Yes, your lease may or may not have a warranty built in. Where I was, the leasing and the warranty were the same. So there was one price, easy peasy.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This type of thinking kind of flies in the face of leasing unless you expect the life of the equipment is roughly the same as the life of the equipment.
Not the leasing that I have worked with. We had customers leasing ten year old gear regularly. The lease costs were very low and they had the peace of mind that the lease company was there to deal with it when it broke from old age.
What happened when it broke before the lease was expired?
Same as leasing a car - it gets fixed. That's part of the value of a lease, you don't have to worry about the equipment breaking as you are leasing a working product. You don't have to worry about support periods any longer.
I've never heard of leasing a used car.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
In a similar situation, management would rather take a loan than a lease, in my case.
Sure, but that is purely a financial decision. You lose lease benefits that are often included like guaranteed support. Basically the company is attempting to structure their own lease. They would rather pay interest to a third party than to the vendor. An odd financial decision since there is zero pricing leverage then on either side. The bank has to make profit, the vendor has to make profit and you've added a third party to pay out to that was unnecessary.
I'm lost - Only on the mopier have I seen a leasing company provide any support for equipment that was a part of a least, then again I've never leased non new equipment for more than 3 years, which was the same term as the factory warranty on the equipment.
That's just one kind of leasing. Leasing and buying are just ways to pay, how services are tied to those purchases vary dramatically. From a purely pay perspective, leasing is generally better.
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@Dashrender said:
I've never heard of leasing a used car.
Quite common. A lot of people lease a new car and trade in. Those traded in cars either go to auction or get re-leased.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
I've never heard of leasing a used car.
Quite common. A lot of people lease a new car and trade in. Those traded in cars either go to auction or get re-leased.
which is it? common or not, your example specifically says "people leas a NEW car." Once it's traded it, it's off lease. I've never heard of used cars being available for lease. (I figured because the cost maintenance wouldn't be worth it for either the leasing company or the leasing company would have to pad the cost so much to ensure they were covered, it wouldn't be worth it to the end user).
The same goes for computers - Leasing a used computer seems counter-intuitive. The cost of maintaining 3-5 year old computers parts wise gets more and more expensive as the machine ages. So the Leasing company will need to build into the lease price the cost of ensuring that the equipment continues to function during the entirety of the lease, right? or do they just pawn that off on the end user?
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We actually have an off lease Vehicle got something with like 20,000 miles for not much money.
