Windows 10 Versions announced
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@Dashrender said:
My thinking was that all windows would be the same price - the GPO features for example are only worth while if you have an AD. So when you connect to the AD you make the Server CAL more expensive to make the the loss on the PRO license.
But I can get that stuff without AD. So that doesn't work. You are assuming that if you shift the pricing around that IT won't change how they deploy. The really will. You raise the cost of the server and lower the cost of GPO on the client and lots of things change. Big things. The cost of running SQL Server goes up, that's unrelated. The cost of Exchange goes up. The value of running Samba goes up. You are changing the fundamentals of Windows purchasing decisions.
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@Dashrender said:
But they should really have another Server CAL that keeps the current pricing for things like printers and other devices that will use minor services like DNS and DHCP, otherwise you're really raising the cost.
So make desktops easier by making servers harder?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
If you are only going to use the desktop bits, then you just pay for the desktop CAL. Users with Desktop CALs are licensed to access the servers.... and I don't mean 6 different versions of user-CALs either.
So are you planning to just give everyone (or more people) the premium features and lose money? Or do you plan on raising the pricing for nearly everyone even though they don't use the features?
What are the "premium features" in a desktop installation of Windows?
RemoteFX? Nah, that's a server thing.
Mobile Device Management? That is a server-side component with a small client on the end-user device.
Hyper-V? That could go either way.
Direct Access? Definitely a server thing.
Office 201x? That's a separate software package.
MS-SQL Server? That is a separate server service to be licensed separately from the Windows Server.Has to be one or the other, right?
More often than not, yes. And in this situation, I think probably. I figure there are some ways to price a structure such as this without the company losing money, while also keeping the pricing structured well enough for both customers and businesses to benefit.
It would take a bit of thinking and tinkering, but I think it could be done.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
My thinking was that all windows would be the same price - the GPO features for example are only worth while if you have an AD. So when you connect to the AD you make the Server CAL more expensive to make the the loss on the PRO license.
But I can get that stuff without AD. So that doesn't work. You are assuming that if you shift the pricing around that IT won't change how they deploy. The really will. You raise the cost of the server and lower the cost of GPO on the client and lots of things change. Big things. The cost of running SQL Server goes up, that's unrelated. The cost of Exchange goes up. The value of running Samba goes up. You are changing the fundamentals of Windows purchasing decisions.
Yup. Group Policy is quite useful even with out a Domain.. But then if you use a Linux/Samba PDC emulator, then you'd really get away with not paying for the features you use. I get having a Home edition and a Enterprise/Pro but I think the Enterprise & Pro should be merged and be made the price of Pro. However, I don't see that happening some companies/IT guys just like Saying they run Windows Enterprise even if it costs a lot more for features they haven't even touched. But, hey if they want to waste money it works well for Microsoft.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
If you are only going to use the desktop bits, then you just pay for the desktop CAL. Users with Desktop CALs are licensed to access the servers.... and I don't mean 6 different versions of user-CALs either.
So are you planning to just give everyone (or more people) the premium features and lose money? Or do you plan on raising the pricing for nearly everyone even though they don't use the features?
What are the "premium features" in a desktop installation of Windows?
RemoteFX? Nah, that's a server thing.
Mobile Device Management? That is a server-side component with a small client on the end-user device.
Hyper-V? That could go either way.
Direct Access? Definitely a server thing.
Office 201x? That's a separate software package.
MS-SQL Server? That is a separate server service to be licensed separately from the Windows Server.Direct Access Client is a Desktop thing (so it's both)
Group Policy, That's a Desktop thing. The only thing really server side about it is a file share which has policies in it. -
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@dafyre said:
More often than not, yes. And in this situation, I think probably. I figure there are some ways to price a structure such as this without the company losing money, while also keeping the pricing structured well enough for both customers and businesses to benefit.
It would take a bit of thinking and tinkering, but I think it could be done.
It would probably make it all even more complicated. I guarantee MS has done their research here. They have grouped features together in logical and simple ways. If you start combining things like people often suggest (collapsed levels, moving pricing to other places, etc.) you start disconnecting pricing from the features and people start having big incentive to get the features cheap and never pay OR people who need basic things find that the costs have doubled.
If you are going to license this stuff, it is going to be complicated because there are so many pieces. You need people paying for the features, not just parts of them, or it will all fall apart.
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@scottalanmiller said:
If you are going to license this stuff, it is going to be complicated because there are so many pieces. You need people paying for the features, not just parts of them, or it will all fall apart.
I will have to concede that point to you, because as you said, it is working for Microsoft... Guess they are adhering to the if it ain't broke don't fix it policy, lol.
<must not make comments about updates... must not make comments about updates>
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@dafyre said:
I will have to concede that point to you, because as you said, it is working for Microsoft... Guess they are adhering to the if it ain't broke don't break it policy
FTFY.
Playing with licensing could mean going out of business almost overnight. That's very dangerous stuff to try to tweak. A major change means major risk. And honestly, after decades of messing with it and thinking about it, their model is actually really clean, simple and mostly obvious for a large software vendor with a large array of interrelated products that are used in nearly every combination possible that isn't open source.
