Official All Things TV Thread
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@Dashrender said:
Are we talking TV shows or movies here?
I don't condone piracy, but that said, without it we definitely wouldn't have many of the options/technologies we have today.
When it's easier to acquire music on Napster than from the retailer, then people are going to switch. Apple clearly showed that when the price point is good (from the customer perspective) and access is easy (iTunes) people will flock to purchases.
The same goes for movies and today we have services like Netflix and Vudu that charge reasonable rates for a pretty good if not great product. And I'm really glad to see that HBO is finally joining the full on digital age and providing a non cable connected service.
Totally agree with this. My biggest issue with Netflix is the delay between when a season finishes and when it goes up on the site. Haven't gotten into Hulu as of yet...
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I don't have a problem with that delay. The delay is there to drive sales of Blurays. If you want it right now, buy the Bluray, if you can stand waiting a month, well then.. lol wait.
I made this decision on Lucy. I really wanted to watch the movie again (though the ending was horrible!) but when I read that it would be on Netflix a month later, I figured that buying the movie was pointless.
*Edit: Well I guess I didn't read the fine print good enough, Lucy will only be available from Netflix on the DVD rental side. I guess it's a good thing my friend has a copy I can borrow, I don't feel like paying $25 for the HD version from Vudu.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And that's illegal for copyrighted content. It makes those that pay, pay more due to loss of sales. Volume of sales decreases the price.
No, it's the opposite. Pirating reduces demand for paid content and lower demand lowers prices and reduces profits for the content providers. Look how the cost of CDs has plummeted since Napster was invented. Pirating largely influences the profits going into fat executives, not the price you and I pay. Think of BitTorrent as a competitor to Amazon and Napster - competition lowers prices, it doesn't increase them.
In economics terms, it's simple supply and demand.
While I agree with this, it doesn't change the fact that torrenting, to download copyrighted media, is illegal in most nations. Copyrighting is not a free market/supply and demand idea. Instead it creates a limited monopoly for the terms of the copyright, or patent. Originally it was to protect and encourage innovation... not really sure that it still does that though.
My philosophy is that if it's been on TV and I could have recorded it and converted it to a digital file, how is that any different?
Technically you aren't supposed to do that. Watching television you are given very limited rights to reproduce any media that you see on it. With purchased media you are allowed to make a backup of it but the moment that backup becomes publicly available you are liable for the damages caused by it. With television you really aren't allowed to do even that.
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Speaking of borrowing a movie. Considering how difficult it is to loan someone your digital content (most systems don't have a mechanism for this), sales in general will probably increase significantly because of digital sales like iTunes/Google Play/Amazon, etc. due to their play nearly anywhere convenience
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@coliver said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And that's illegal for copyrighted content. It makes those that pay, pay more due to loss of sales. Volume of sales decreases the price.
No, it's the opposite. Pirating reduces demand for paid content and lower demand lowers prices and reduces profits for the content providers. Look how the cost of CDs has plummeted since Napster was invented. Pirating largely influences the profits going into fat executives, not the price you and I pay. Think of BitTorrent as a competitor to Amazon and Napster - competition lowers prices, it doesn't increase them.
In economics terms, it's simple supply and demand.
While I agree with this, it doesn't change the fact that torrenting, to download copyrighted media, is illegal in most nations. Copyrighting is not a free market/supply and demand idea. Instead it creates a limited monopoly for the terms of the copyright, or patent. Originally it was to protect and encourage innovation... not really sure that it still does that though.
My philosophy is that if it's been on TV and I could have recorded it and converted it to a digital file, how is that any different?
Technically you aren't supposed to do that. Watching television you are given very limited rights to reproduce any media that you see on it. With purchased media you are allowed to make a backup of it but the moment that backup becomes publicly available you are liable for the damages caused by it. With television you really aren't allowed to do even that.
Actually it is legal to record it. for very limited usage. But must only be used to watch once later then removed. This decision was made in the Betamax case. this was back in the 1980's.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And that's illegal for copyrighted content. It makes those that pay, pay more due to loss of sales. Volume of sales decreases the price.
No, it's the opposite. Pirating reduces demand for paid content and lower demand lowers prices and reduces profits for the content providers. Look how the cost of CDs has plummeted since Napster was invented. Pirating largely influences the profits going into fat executives, not the price you and I pay. Think of BitTorrent as a competitor to Amazon and Napster - competition lowers prices, it doesn't increase them.
In economics terms, it's simple supply and demand.
While I agree with this, it doesn't change the fact that torrenting, to download copyrighted media, is illegal in most nations. Copyrighting is not a free market/supply and demand idea. Instead it creates a limited monopoly for the terms of the copyright, or patent. Originally it was to protect and encourage innovation... not really sure that it still does that though.
My philosophy is that if it's been on TV and I could have recorded it and converted it to a digital file, how is that any different?
So if it's been on TV you'll go to walmart and steal a copy of it? It's the same thing. Stealing is Stealing.
Right, which I meant by limited use. I meant you aren't allowed to create a backup for personal use... Didn't one of the media companies try and force all DVRs to have the record once, watch once feature?
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@coliver said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
And that's illegal for copyrighted content. It makes those that pay, pay more due to loss of sales. Volume of sales decreases the price.
No, it's the opposite. Pirating reduces demand for paid content and lower demand lowers prices and reduces profits for the content providers. Look how the cost of CDs has plummeted since Napster was invented. Pirating largely influences the profits going into fat executives, not the price you and I pay. Think of BitTorrent as a competitor to Amazon and Napster - competition lowers prices, it doesn't increase them.
In economics terms, it's simple supply and demand.
While I agree with this, it doesn't change the fact that torrenting, to download copyrighted media, is illegal in most nations. Copyrighting is not a free market/supply and demand idea. Instead it creates a limited monopoly for the terms of the copyright, or patent. Originally it was to protect and encourage innovation... not really sure that it still does that though.
My philosophy is that if it's been on TV and I could have recorded it and converted it to a digital file, how is that any different?
So if it's been on TV you'll go to walmart and steal a copy of it? It's the same thing. Stealing is Stealing.
Right, which I meant by limited use. I meant you aren't allowed to create a backup for personal use... Didn't one of the media companies try and force all DVRs to have the record once, watch once feature?
Not that I know of. But legally that's all you are suppose to do. It's called for "time shifting" purposes. The only exception is schools,
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I will NEVER cry 1 tear for the lost profit of movie studios or record companies. Steal it all... those fat cat execs can set piles of $$$ on fire laughing, so steal it all.
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@coliver said:
Technically you aren't supposed to do that. Watching television you are given very limited rights to reproduce any media that you see on it.
Until last year it was illegal in the UK to burn your CDs onto your iPod. My take is that the law is an ass and I'll use my own morals to decide what I do or don't do, not the state's laws which are primarily designed to protect the capitalist rather than the proletariat.
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@RojoLoco said:
I will NEVER cry 1 tear for the lost profit of movie studios or record companies. Steal it all... those fat cat execs can set piles of $$$ on fire laughing, so steal it all.
Do you realize you are taking money away from everyone in the production. Most people working in them make very little money.
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@RojoLoco said:
I will NEVER cry 1 tear for the lost profit of movie studios or record companies. Steal it all... those fat cat execs can set piles of $$$ on fire laughing, so steal it all.
That brings up another good point about torrenting and digital distribution. It has allowed content creators to bypass a third party distributor and handle sales by themselves. This has lowered overall prices of content and content creation... which is a great thing to have for the competition take on this.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
Technically you aren't supposed to do that. Watching television you are given very limited rights to reproduce any media that you see on it.
Until last year it was illegal in the UK to burn your CDs onto your iPod. My take is that the law is an ass and I'll use my own morals to decide what I do or don't do, not the state's laws which are primarily designed to protect the capitalist rather than the proletariat.
Fair enough, but this law is still the law... in fact in many cases it has carried a much higher punishment (in the US) then things like rape, and pre-meditated murder.
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@thecreativeone91 Production workers are paid union scale on a per job basis. It has nothing to do with profitability of a project. Game of Thrones is the most pirated show ever, and it remains in production somehow, and all those workers got paid, and will continue to get paid.
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@Dashrender said:
I don't have a problem with that delay. The delay is there to drive sales of Blurays. If you want it right now, buy the Bluray, if you can stand waiting a month, well then.. lol wait.
I made this decision on Lucy. I really wanted to watch the movie again (though the ending was horrible!) but when I read that it would be on Netflix a month later, I figured that buying the movie was pointless.
*Edit: Well I guess I didn't read the fine print good enough, Lucy will only be available from Netflix on the DVD rental side. I guess it's a good thing my friend has a copy I can borrow, I don't feel like paying $25 for the HD version from Vudu.
Lucy started out good, but the ending was horrible...
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@RojoLoco said:
@thecreativeone91 Production workers are paid union scale on a per job basis. It has nothing to do with profitability of a project. Game of Thrones is the most pirated show ever, and it remains in production somehow, and all those workers got paid, and will continue to get paid.
That's not true. That only covers a very small percentage of jobs under the IATSE union. If you guys worked in production you'd think about it differently. People should be paid for the work they've done. Along with companies are allowed to make profits - that is what they are there for.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@RojoLoco said:
@thecreativeone91 Production workers are paid union scale on a per job basis. It has nothing to do with profitability of a project. Game of Thrones is the most pirated show ever, and it remains in production somehow, and all those workers got paid, and will continue to get paid.
That's not true. That only covers a very small percentage of jobs under the IATSE union.
Still, their budget gets bigger every year, and they continue to be pirated more and more. I don't see HBO crying about it...
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@thecreativeone91 said:
If you guys worked in production you'd think about it differently. People should be paid for the work they've done. Along with companies are allowed to make profits - that is what they are there for.
There may be some honourable exceptions, but generally companies will pay their workers the minimum they can get away with. I've never known a company go "Hey, our profits have increased, let's give everyone a pay rise". Apple has made billions in profits from selling content through iTunes, I don't see them paying their workers more than everyone else as a result.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@RojoLoco said:
@thecreativeone91 Production workers are paid union scale on a per job basis. It has nothing to do with profitability of a project. Game of Thrones is the most pirated show ever, and it remains in production somehow, and all those workers got paid, and will continue to get paid.
That's not true. That only covers a very small percentage of jobs under the IATSE union.
Still, their budget gets bigger every year, and they continue to be pirated more and more. I don't see HBO crying about it...
So what makes you think you get to control their budget just because you don't like how much they get. If you think something is worth watching buy it. simple as that. You sound very much like you think your are Entitled to it.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@Dashrender said:
I don't have a problem with that delay. The delay is there to drive sales of Blurays. If you want it right now, buy the Bluray, if you can stand waiting a month, well then.. lol wait.
I made this decision on Lucy. I really wanted to watch the movie again (though the ending was horrible!) but when I read that it would be on Netflix a month later, I figured that buying the movie was pointless.
*Edit: Well I guess I didn't read the fine print good enough, Lucy will only be available from Netflix on the DVD rental side. I guess it's a good thing my friend has a copy I can borrow, I don't feel like paying $25 for the HD version from Vudu.
Lucy started out good, but the ending was horrible...
I completely agree!
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Still, their budget gets bigger every year, and they continue to be pirated more and more. I don't see HBO crying about it...
So what makes you think you get to control their budget just because you don't like how much they get. If you think something is worth watching buy it. simple as that. You sound very much like you think your are Entitled to it.
I know you were directing that comment at AJ, but I wanted to jump in here. That's why I don't like some of the digital distribution - it almost totally eliminates sharing. As I mentioned before, I don't really want to own Lucy on DVD so I'm going to borrow my friends copy then give it back... that's something that doesn't really exist in the digital world.
