Proxmox in production questions
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I have a couple of questions on Proxmox as a replacement for servers running xenserver/xcp-ng. I know some of you guys are using it.
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Is it possible to use local storage ext4/xfs whatever, without zfs, for VMs? Any features that will not work?
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Can you run it without support and have a system that you can run in production with updates etc? I read somewhere about a paid repository.
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Does it have built-in support for md raid? The linux kernel does of course, but I'm thinking about the installing and managing side of things. For instance, will arrays shows up in the GUI, can you install arrays with the installer, will the array persist during proxmox upgrades?
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If I understand correctly Proxmox is using the ubuntu kernel with patches for zfs, so it's not pure debian. What else is not "pure"?
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Can Proxmox work together with pure KVM? For instance if you create a VM using KVM tooling like virsh, will the VM show up in the GUI?
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Do Proxmox have any built-in features for backups and VM replication? Xcp-ng for instance do not, but have Xen Orchestra.
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Can you setup VLANs and LACP bonding from the GUI? Does the GUI support open vswitch?
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Do Proxmox have a CLI specifically or can do you use regular KVM for automation tasks?
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How much storage space does it need for the installation of the hypervisor itself? Can you run it on low endurance devices such as USB, SD-cards etc?
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How do you upgrade between major versions (not patching)? And how often? Do you reinstall from scratch (ISO) or something else?
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How do you manage several independent proxmox servers, that are not a part of a pool? Do you need to log into the GUI interface of each server? Is it possible to any type of central authentication for credentials?
I know that was a lot of questions...but if you are a proxmox user maybe you know the answer to at least some of these.
There are a lot of homelab type info on proxmox so I've had a hard time finding out how it actually works in a production environment.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
Is it possible to use local storage ext4/xfs whatever, without zfs, for VMs? Any features that will not work?
By default, the local storage for VMs is ext4 with option to use xfs or zfs.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
Can you run it without support and have a system that you can run in production with updates etc? I read somewhere about a paid repository.
Yes, you can run it without support. But you will get a pop up reminder after each login or attempting an update from the GUI (you can remove it).
By default, the enterprise repo is used that requires an subscription to get Proxmox updates but you can the no-subscription repo instead.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
Does it have built-in support for md raid? The linux kernel does of course, but I'm thinking about the installing and managing side of things. For instance, will arrays shows up in the GUI, can you install arrays with the installer, will the array persist during proxmox upgrades?
If I remember correctly, to use md raid, you’ll have install a vanilla Debian to set up md raid and then setup the Proxmox repo so you can install Proxmox.
And also the GUI doesn’t show the array. But I guess you could install cockpit to manage the arrays.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
Do Proxmox have any built-in features for backups and VM replication? Xcp-ng for instance do not, but have Xen Orchestra.
Xen Orchestra has Proxmox beat. Proxmox built in back up does only full backups. But there are better features if you setup the Proxmox Backup Server.
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I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
Do Proxmox have a CLI specifically or can do you use regular KVM for automation tasks?
https://pve.proxmox.com/pve-docs/
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@black3dynamite said in Proxmox in production questions:
By default, the enterprise repo is used that requires an subscription to get Proxmox updates but you can the no-subscription repo instead.
OK, so if you don't pay for support, you will not get any proxmox updates? Or at least not proven stable updates.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories#sysadmin_no_subscription_repo
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
@black3dynamite said in Proxmox in production questions:
By default, the enterprise repo is used that requires an subscription to get Proxmox updates but you can the no-subscription repo instead.
OK, so if you don't pay for support, you will not get any proxmox updates? Or at least not proven stable updates.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories#sysadmin_no_subscription_repo
Correct, you won’t have access to there enterprise repo.
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I should imagine/hope if there was a serious breach that needed an update, they would push this to the non enterprise repo as well.
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@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
Raid 5 does this natively, how is this some amazing feature?
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@dustinb3403 said in Proxmox in production questions:
@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
Raid 5 does this natively, how is this some amazing feature?
This is ZFS RAIDZ3, probably the only implementation of RAID7. It protects not from just one disk failure, but from 3, at the cost of rather severe performance penalty. Not something one would put production loads on, even with all flash array. Probably better used for storing backups.
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@marcinozga better used for nothing.
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@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
I have two ProxMox servers headed over your way tomorrow! I was getting them ready today. But we are doing EXT4 on hardware RAID on these.
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@marcinozga said in Proxmox in production questions:
@dustinb3403 said in Proxmox in production questions:
@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
Raid 5 does this natively, how is this some amazing feature?
This is ZFS RAIDZ3, probably the only implementation of RAID7. It protects not from just one disk failure, but from 3, at the cost of rather severe performance penalty. Not something one would put production loads on, even with all flash array. Probably better used for storing backups.
Really hits the CPU hard. It was intended for giant storage situations like BackBlaze.
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@dustinb3403 said in Proxmox in production questions:
@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
Raid 5 does this natively, how is this some amazing feature?
RAID 5 is single parity.
RAID 6 is double parity.
RAID 7 is triple parity.This is RAID 7.
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@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
@black3dynamite said in Proxmox in production questions:
By default, the enterprise repo is used that requires an subscription to get Proxmox updates but you can the no-subscription repo instead.
OK, so if you don't pay for support, you will not get any proxmox updates? Or at least not proven stable updates.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories#sysadmin_no_subscription_repo
You get the updates from Debian.
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@scottalanmiller said in Proxmox in production questions:
@pete-s said in Proxmox in production questions:
@black3dynamite said in Proxmox in production questions:
By default, the enterprise repo is used that requires an subscription to get Proxmox updates but you can the no-subscription repo instead.
OK, so if you don't pay for support, you will not get any proxmox updates? Or at least not proven stable updates.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories#sysadmin_no_subscription_repo
You get the updates from Debian.
I checked and Proxmox doesn't use the Debian kernel. They use the Ubuntu kernel and then add zfs on linux and other things to it.
So through Debian you'll get updates to userland. But the kernel, drivers and anything proxmox related has to come from the proxmox repositories.
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@scottalanmiller said in Proxmox in production questions:
@dustinb3403 said in Proxmox in production questions:
@itivan80 said in Proxmox in production questions:
I am using a promox server with the following raid-RAIDZ-3. A variation on RAID-5, triple parity. Requires at least 5 disks. It works awesome for my VMs. It protects me fully if one disk goes down.
Raid 5 does this natively, how is this some amazing feature?
RAID 5 is single parity.
RAID 6 is double parity.
RAID 7 is triple parity.This is RAID 7.
Sorry, I could've swore this said protects from 1 drive failure....
