Azure or 0365?
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Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .
cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.Delete the damn thread if it's a problem for people to have a conversation on their opinions of what's the best thing for certain situations.
Everyone kept turning it to me, but that wasn't even close to what was supposed to happen.
Yall were supposed to have a conversation about it - that wasn't on the other thread - that's not what that thread is for.
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@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
The whole point of this was because I was getting multiple opinions about what I should be learning- which is also why "We continue to have this conversation about what I should learn" not to mention I was reading up on something that I thought was interesting - I never once thought that I needed everyone's opinion on what to learn.
Not to get dragged into the "what question should be asked" debate. But to address "what you should be learning" I think is this simple...
- You need to do a baseline / survey of IT and know enough about all the real areas to understand what you like or are interested in.
- Look at what jobs won't exist in the future (e.g. DBA is essentially gone already and is diminishing, pretty much no career in that.) Not which ones will be hot, ignore that. But rule out ones that have no future at all.
- Taking #1 as a list, ruling out items from #2 as having no possibility path forward, you then have the list of what to learn. Start at the top. Do what you like. That's how you make yourself happy, and by being happy you succeed.
This is a question that is answered inside yourself, asking if an IaaS/PaaS or SaaS career from Microsoft is right for you is unanswerable because both are valid, and extremely specific, career paths that are nothing alike. Either, both, neither. Only you can tell us.
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@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Also - I'm still extremely new to IT, i have a basic understanding of a lot but nowhere close to where I want to be. I've made it a lot further than i was when I first started
Sort of. But not really. It might feel that way because so many of us have been around a long time. So compared to a Jared or a Dashrender, yeah, you're a freaking noob dude! The difference is measured in decades (damn old fogeys, go back to your own lawns!!) But if you look at just your own career timeline, you've been on ML for over four years. Almost 4.5, I think. And you were in IT before that. Maybe not a year, but something. And, presumably, you were learning IT stuff before that.
Now everyone's path is different. And don't read into any comparison too much. But you should be aware that people build entire careers in less time. Nothing wrong with taking it slow, but you have to accept that you are several years past the point of considering yourself a newbie. Your hears of experience put you at mid-career level, not beginner.
Example: CompTIA considers the material on the Net+ to be a "minimum baseline" that anyone in any arena of IT should have after just two years. And that's for the absolutely lowest end jobs. Anyone with any real training should have the Net+ corpus under their belt before applying to their first job. Maybe not the cert, who cares about that, but understanding what's on it. That's two years, you are more like five.
At five years, you could easily be holding down a dozen certs, have moved up to a senior role, and be bringing down six figures. In big Fortune 100, midlevel people are generally starting in their later 20s, like 25-28 years old. And most people start IT late, like at 22. So that's 4-6 years of experience often.
There's nothing wrong with being where you are. And there are good reasons why you are moving slowly. But you aren't climbing the ladder at a regular pace. Going purely by your access to resources and time in the industry, you easily could be looking for senior gigs and not blinking at commanding good salaries with loads of benefits with lots of mobility.
Being stuck in one town, taking care of a kid, having to pay the bills month to month... we get it, it holds you back a LOT. But it doesn't stop you having a home lab, reading books, watching YouTube, etc.
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@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .
cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
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@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
If you don't have a strong foundation in IT, is it easier to learn Microsoft 365 or Azure in a way that you can show your experience in a way to pursue a career in IT?
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@flaxking said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
If you don't have a strong foundation in IT, is it easier to learn Microsoft 365 or Azure in a way that you can show your experience in a way to pursue a career in IT?
I'd say probably Microsoft 365. A certification is probably the easiest way to show experience in this situation and while Azure Fundamentals is accessible, I'd say it's value is low, and Azure Admin Assoc assumes a lot of base IT knowledge.
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@flaxking said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
If you don't have a strong foundation in IT, is it easier to learn Microsoft 365 or Azure in a way that you can show your experience in a way to pursue a career in IT?
O365 for sure, because you are closer to the end user. Close to the user and close to the hardware are the easiest places to get without knowing all of the pieces. The middle, where platforms, systems, and databases sit is the hardest area to know.
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@flaxking said in Azure or 0365?:
@flaxking said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
If you don't have a strong foundation in IT, is it easier to learn Microsoft 365 or Azure in a way that you can show your experience in a way to pursue a career in IT?
I'd say probably Microsoft 365. A certification is probably the easiest way to show experience in this situation and while Azure Fundamentals is accessible, I'd say it's value is low, and Azure Admin Assoc assumes a lot of base IT knowledge.
From a purely job perspective, hiring someone with nothing but a cert in one or the other of these... I'd be pretty okay hiring someone with only a cert in O365, it's not touching infrastructure. But hiring someone with only a cert in Azure would be pretty scary.
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Your career path is a little easier if you can land a job in a Financial institution on their support desk team even if you are only bench work. And depending on the environment, you could potentially support a lot of different technology.
For what I’m doing right now I’m exposed to Azure and O365
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@black3dynamite said in Azure or 0365?:
Your career path is a little easier if you can land a job in a Financial institution on their support desk team even if you are only bench work. And depending on the environment, you could potentially support a lot of different technology.
For what I’m doing right now I’m exposed to Azure and O365
It can be challenging to break out of the bench tech role though, that's one concern with that approach.
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@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
My thoughts are: "what's more important to have a certification in to get a better job - O365 or Azure?"
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@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
My thoughts are: "what's more important to have a certification in to get a better job - O365 or Azure?"
You need to define what a "better job" for YOU is first.
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@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
I'd be pretty okay hiring someone with only a cert in O365, it's not touching infrastructure. But hiring someone with only a cert in Azure would be pretty scary.
And that's exactly what I said earlier, it's much easier to get a junior level position that utilizes O365
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@Kris_K said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
My thoughts are: "what's more important to have a certification in to get a better job - O365 or Azure?"
You need to define what a "better job" for YOU is first.
Exactly - you won't know what kind of work you like until you start doing some of any kind of work.
You currently know that you don't like doing work for management who doesn't do things right, or the way they are happening at your current office....
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@IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
I'd be pretty okay hiring someone with only a cert in O365, it's not touching infrastructure. But hiring someone with only a cert in Azure would be pretty scary.
And that's exactly what I said earlier, it's much easier to get a junior level position that utilizes O365
Right, some professions are easier to get in as junior level, simply because, I would imagine Jr level Helpdesk positions are more abundant, therefore less competitive. But I still don't know if that's the route he wants to go by focusing on O365. You sure can take it up to and likely past $200k, ive seen it. Just as you can take the other path in excess of $200k. But then we're back again to him just picking a path.
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@Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:
@IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
I'd be pretty okay hiring someone with only a cert in O365, it's not touching infrastructure. But hiring someone with only a cert in Azure would be pretty scary.
And that's exactly what I said earlier, it's much easier to get a junior level position that utilizes O365
Right, some professions are easier to get in as junior level, simply because, I would imagine Jr level Helpdesk positions are more abundant, therefore less competitive. But I still don't know if that's the route he wants to go by focusing on O365. You sure can take it up to and likely past $200k, ive seen it. Just as you can take the other path in excess of $200k. But then we're back again to him just picking a path.
A helpdesk making more than $200k?...
i'm sure you can count those instances on your fingers. The range is usually MUCH lower.
He needs to understand that he's not going to make anywhere near that for quite some time though. While making as much money as possible sounds great, it can very likely guide someone into making decisions that he/she is going to regret. I'd not want to do something i hate doing, even if i'm paid really well. Helpdesk/IT support in general is not something that anyone can or should do and usually is just a way to get into IT/a specific company. -
Learning o365 is not rocket science and is not going to take years. If it's going to open some doors and get you into IT (don't know what you're doing right now) - you should totally spend the time. Then you can move on with more advanced knowledge, experience and certs (including Azure path, if that's what you want to become good at).
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@Kris_K said in Azure or 0365?:
A helpdesk making more than $200k?
No not help desk, specializing in Microsoft 365. I suppose I wasn't clear on that.
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Thanks for the Info - Again, not what this was designed to do, but absolutely appreciated..
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@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
@scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:
@WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:
Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.
Yup, it's a good discussion to have, even if the result is "this isn't the right question to ask." That's great, so what IS the right question to ask?
My thoughts are: "what's more important to have a certification in to get a better job - O365 or Azure?"
It depends what the starting point is. But say someone in a helpdesk role asked me if a Microsoft 365 certification or Azure cert would help them get into a non-helpdesk role considered 'higher up the ladder' I'd say Microsoft 365 certification.
I'd say there's probably more roles out there to move up into. Companies may be using Microsoft 365, but could be using other providers for their cloud infrastructure. They might also expect their cloud engineers to know multiple platforms. I had experience creating highly available environments on-premise before breaking into Azure.
Microsoft 365 Admin > Azure engineer isn't a bad transition down the road either. Exposure to Azure AD is going to help with Azure.
It's also really hard to say "I know Azure." Azure is made up of a ton of different services. I'm an Azure Admin Associate and Azure Developer Associate and there's probably a lot of Azure services that I haven't heard of.
