AVImark support has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss or complete destruction of your server.
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AVImark has been discussed here before, but some may not know - AVImark is a Veterinary Software that was developed back in the 80's and hasn't changed much. It is a flat file database and is the #1 used software by veterinary clinics in the world.
From a client this morning. I'm not sure if I should laugh
"Hey Allen,
So far everything with the updated AVImark seems to be working fine, but
we did run into a little issue with one of the features of the updated
version. We used to be able to go into an existing reminder and change
the amount of months before it reminds again, and now you can't. Not
being allowed to to do this has forced us to make a new code for
distemper vaccines and in addition, a new reminder. AVImark logged in
and set up the new reminder, but then said they needed to do a global
apply which takes several hours and required access to the server.When he found out that we have a virtual server he told me virtual
servers are NOT recommended with AVImark and that he could run the
global apply but there was a 40-50% change that we could lose the entire
server if something goes wrong. Because I am new to the virtual server I
confirmed that he knew we had a physical server in the hospital and that
we just access it by remote access. He said he understood and that yes
that was they type of virtual server he was referring to in regards to
not being recommended by AVImark.I mentioned this was news to me and that we just did an entire new
install of AVImark and it was never mentioned that having a virtual
server would be an issue with AVImark. Of course his replay was he
doesn't know why they wouldn't have mentioned that, but it says right in
their hardware requirements that virtual servers are not recommended.So, long story short I am bugging you again to get your thoughts on this
whole thing. It sounds a little silly to me, but my knowledge of virtual
servers is minimal at best. When he mentioned we could lose the whole
server I thought it best to get you involved."So we all know that the tech is full of crap, but it's sad the tech didn't even take the time to read their hardware requirements.
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@CCWTech Sounds like what Quickbooks likes to pull on people and yet RightNetworks is their default Cloud Enterprise Quickbooks Hosting company and guess what, it is all virtualized!
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@dbeato said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
@CCWTech Sounds like what Quickbooks likes to pull on people and yet RightNetworks is their default Cloud Enterprise Quickbooks Hosting company and guess what, it is all virtualized!
Yep, except QB is doing it to generate revenue. In this case it's complete and total incompetence.
What's also interesting to note is that I set up the server mentioned in this post. I am a hired consultant for Covetrus, the company who owns AVImark. They have hired me on several occasions where they couldn't fix issues with a clients hardware/network and needed my help.
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Also worth noting, the tech wasn't told that the system was virtual, he was told it was accessed remotely and he applied "remote" as "virtual". So the tech wasn't responding to anything being virtual, at all.
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@scottalanmiller said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
Also worth noting, the tech wasn't told that the system was virtual, he was told it was accessed remotely and he applied "remote" as "virtual". So the tech wasn't responding to anything being virtual, at all.
I'm not sure what the tech was told. Client may have mentioned it. It may have been given to them as a reason why she had to remote into it vs. being on the server.
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So why do vendors like these not want their applications virtualized?
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@jmoore said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
So why do vendors like these not want their applications virtualized?
In this case it can be. But the complete incompetence of their software support just reinforces how out of touch they are with the 35+ year old technology they offer. -
So the tech said something inaccurate, so what? That happens just about everyday in every company on earth.
BTW, the title on the thread is misleading. AVImark didn't state anything.
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@CCWTech said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
@jmoore said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
So why do vendors like these not want their applications virtualized?
In this case it can be. But the complete incompetence of their software support just reinforces how out of touch they are with the 35+ year old technology they offer.Ok thanks
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@Pete-S said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
So the tech said something inaccurate, so what? That happens just about everyday in every company on earth.
BTW, the title on the thread is misleading. AVImark didn't state anything.
Fair enough, I'll edit. But this is what the company MUST expect given the level of techs they employ.
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@CCWTech said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
@scottalanmiller said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
Also worth noting, the tech wasn't told that the system was virtual, he was told it was accessed remotely and he applied "remote" as "virtual". So the tech wasn't responding to anything being virtual, at all.
I'm not sure what the tech was told. Client may have mentioned it. It may have been given to them as a reason why she had to remote into it vs. being on the server.
Just going by the write up.
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@Pete-S said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
BTW, the title on the thread is misleading. AVImark didn't state anything.
Who is Avimark if not their representative? We can't cherry pick which employees "are avimark" and which aren't to suit our needs. The tech is Avimark as much as any other employee, and the tech is the selected representative to the customer, and the one that determines if support is given or not.
So more than anyone else, the tech's providing support ARE Avimark. Until someone overrides him, it's the level that impacts support that defines "what Avimark says" more than anything else. Because this is where the rubber is hitting the road.
Marketing people can and will say anything to get a sale, and if they lie, that's the company lying. If a tech refuses to honour what marketing does, that's the company refusing support. It's crazy to say that when the company makes an official statement to a customer that it doesn't count unless it's what you want to hear.
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@Pete-S said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
So the tech said something inaccurate, so what? That happens just about everyday in every company on earth.
What makes it inaccurate? This is their official support channel's word on the matter. Accuracy is determined by what the tech says and nothing else (until overridden by a higher tech.) So as it stands, this is the truth of the matter.
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@scottalanmiller said in AVImark support has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss or complete destruction of your server.:
@Pete-S said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
BTW, the title on the thread is misleading. AVImark didn't state anything.
Who is Avimark if not their representative? We can't cherry pick which employees "are avimark" and which aren't to suit our needs. The tech is Avimark as much as any other employee, and the tech is the selected representative to the customer, and the one that determines if support is given or not.
So more than anyone else, the tech's providing support ARE Avimark. Until someone overrides him, it's the level that impacts support that defines "what Avimark says" more than anything else. Because this is where the rubber is hitting the road.
Marketing people can and will say anything to get a sale, and if they lie, that's the company lying. If a tech refuses to honour what marketing does, that's the company refusing support. It's crazy to say that when the company makes an official statement to a customer that it doesn't count unless it's what you want to hear.
It could have been well said that an Employee of Avimark stated this. It is clear that the employee contradicted the documentation but to say that is what Avimark said is a little over the top.
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What I'm hearing is a "vendors get unlimited free passes" mentality and here is why this is dangerous....
Tell marketing to promise anything that they want. Then tell your techs to not honour it. If someone complains, just point to the other party and say "whatever issue you have is not official." It's a free pass and no matter what the company actually supports or does, we excuse them because "companies can do no wrong."
Mistakes happen, but this doesn't appear to be a mistake. Could it be? Maybe. But that's not what experience says with this vendor.
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@scottalanmiller said in AVImark support has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss or complete destruction of your server.:
@Pete-S said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
So the tech said something inaccurate, so what? That happens just about everyday in every company on earth.
What makes it inaccurate? This is their official support channel's word on the matter. Accuracy is determined by what the tech says and nothing else (until overridden by a higher tech.) So as it stands, this is the truth of the matter.
And this is far more than just a simple mistake by a tech. It's more than a faux paus.
He is explicitly saying the company doesn't support virtual servers and referencing their hardware requirements (which are set by the company.) Of course he is wrong, but is it up to the consumer to train their techs?
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@dbeato said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
It could have been well said that an Employee of Avimark stated this. It is clear that the employee contradicted the documentation but to say that is what Avimark said is a little over the top.
No, to say they DIDN'T say it is WAY over the top. Because they SAID IT. There is one and only one source of truth to support, and that's what the person giving the support says and does. To use ANYTHING other than that is crazy and completely untruthful.
The support person is THE one and only voice of the company here. Anything else is just "something on a website that doesn't hold up when tested."
You are using "someone that we don't know who it is put on a website" to be a greater source of truth than "when tested to see if true, was determined to be false." The actual support channel said it wasn't supported. There's nothing else that matters.
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@CCWTech said in AVImark has stated that running virtual servers can result in a 40-50% data loss:
He is explicitly saying the company doesn't support virtual servers and referencing their hardware requirements (which are set by the company.) Of course he is wrong, but is it up to the consumer to train their techs?
No, it's up to the company to step in and correct through the proper support channel. Until they do so, the entire organization has stood by the statement.
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@scottalanmiller I mean the fact that your customers use Avimark and that it is so far a horrible software tells me that you are willing to deal with this anyway so no more from me.
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As an employer, if I have a tech hired to speak for me and they say something wrong, and they control the actions of the company, and I decide not to have someone above them step in and correct them and actually do the thing that they refused to do, they are my voice and have decided what the company does and stands for. If I claimed anything else, I'd be a liar.
Why would Avimark get a pass that none of us would get if we hired someone that said something wrong, defied our published requirements, and didn't do anything to correct them? What makes Avimark special that you don't treat them like everyone else?
