Looking to Buy a SAN
-
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
You keep saying this, but you're referencing companies that just lift and shift. We have said over and over again obviously that's more expensive. Applications need to be redesigned to leverage public cloud efficiently.
Right, but you never talk about the cost of doing that. This is generally a cost that is massively larger (orders of magnitude larger) than the potential cost savings of any infrastructure.
Take QuickBooks as a really, really common example. It costs a few hundred dollars per year to license. It requires extremely little infrastructure... Windows Server, RDS... a few things. But nowhere near $5K a year.
Now tell me what it will cost to recreate QuickBooks (on any platform.) There is a reason that when they went to cloud options that even Intuit couldn't recreate it, they had to drop loads of functionality. People who need QB, which is a lot of people because of certain tax things that it is relatively unique in, have very few options out there and essentially all are very antiquated. Remaking it is absolutely possible, but there is a reason why no software vendor out there is considering that that will be of significant cost savings enough to be willing to invest in it.
We are talking tens of millions of dollars. Even if we are ridiculous and claim we can do it for one million dollars... that's 200 years of running your own server for this, easily. And you only save that much if the resulting product never needs code updates and the serverless system is 100% free.
If you are an Intuit kind of company and can make this investment and spread the benefits around thousands or tens of thousands of customers, sure, IF it has real benefit, you can consider doing it.
But then you have to address all of the places that either for legal reasons or technology ones cannot use hosted services. No matter how obnoxious people are, in the real world, businesses commonly struggle to get fast and reliable Internet services. They do right here in the Dallas Metro, they are really screwed in the Houston Metro, we have customers all over the country that can't rely on their Internet and no providers short of "build out your own fiber" exist.
Check Tyler, TX, that's been one of our hardest. We cannot find any option, short of laying our own fiber, to beat 18/1 AT&T DSL. We've talked to everyone, we've brought in consultants.
I'll just leave this here so you can argue with yourself about why or why not businesses should be using Quickbooks. Just tell them to use Excel and the problem is fixed......
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
-
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
We had 200mb comcast internet that went out twice in living there for 5 years. Once was because someone wrecked into the pole.
You are exaggerating the internet situation.You are using a personal anecdote to try to pretend that real world Internet problems do not exist. Yes, there are places where it is good, and places where it is bad. And places where people have no issues, and places where people have big issues.
Anecdotes don't apply. Until you can guarantee that companies won't have issues, not outages, slowdowns, etc. over a long period of time, which you cannot do, you are asking them to risk huge investments that they won't be able to leverage if that situation changes.
If you are like me, you also research Internet before living somewhere and choose a home based on the quality of available Internet, rather than moving to where you are randomly told to go and taking what is available. So in at least my case, my home example would always be filtered by me having selected where I live and that being a top factor in where I would choose to be.
You're using personal anecdotes of "people you talk to". We all can talk to people and I don't know of anyone I've talked to who couldn't get decent internet, especially not a business.
You're right, you can't guarantee that. But with publicly hosted solutions you can just go somewhere else that has a connection. An argument you have made before.
There are mitigations to failure, of course. But what about a doctor, vet, manufacturing facility, store, restaurant, hotel... they can send a few people home, sure. But what about the business itself?
Kind of like hosted Vetastic? What do the customers do if that goes down?
They go to on premises, which is why we make it clear we don't recommend running on cloud unless they are in a position to go offline at the clinic or to close while they have no Internet. There is a reason that Vetastic is ground up meant to be run on premises because with only the most unlikely situations is cloud sensible for a vet clinic, except as a failover mechanism for brief periods while on prem is down. Which is why Vetastic uses it as a failover mechanism and never recommends that a customer demand to run off of it as their primary.
-
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
MS did, once upon a time. But it didn't make it. but seriously, it was a product that they had. And it was good.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
-
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
MS did, once upon a time. But it didn't make it. but seriously, it was a product that they had. And it was good.
Any links to proof of that, never heard or can find anything about such a product. I dobut they'd compete with their own Dynamics offerings. Nor would MS ever recommend anyone run their whole accounting in excel even if using a bunch of messy VB inside of it.
-
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
MS did, once upon a time. But it didn't make it. but seriously, it was a product that they had. And it was good.
Any links to proof of that, never heard or can find anything about such a product. I dobut they'd compete with their own Dynamics offerings. Nor would MS ever recommend anyone run their whole accounting in excel even if using a bunch of messy VB inside of it.
QB doesn't compete with Dynamix, either. At least not normally.
It was a two stage process. First MS made the QB killer app. Then when it died off, MS said that the product had no real purpose as just buying Excel and using some template at the time would do the same thing.
MS SBA Small Business Accounting, became MS Office Accounting. We used it from first release until they discontinued. Stayed through every iteration. We were the first MS Partner on it, so we got a lot of attention from MS to help us use it. It was an excellent product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Accounting
at the time, they didn't have BizSight 365 as transparently available right after Accounting discontinued as they make it seem now. But it is still available.
-
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Nor would MS ever recommend anyone run their whole accounting in excel even if using a bunch of messy VB inside of it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/find-a-replacement-for-discontinued-microsoft-accounting-software/
According to Microsoft's Office Accounting Website, the company has "determined that existing free templates within Office used with Excel was a better option for small businesses, and the Microsoft Dynamics ERP products were appropriate for mid-range organizations."
-
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
MS did, once upon a time. But it didn't make it. but seriously, it was a product that they had. And it was good.
Any links to proof of that, never heard or can find anything about such a product. I dobut they'd compete with their own Dynamics offerings. Nor would MS ever recommend anyone run their whole accounting in excel even if using a bunch of messy VB inside of it.
QB doesn't compete with Dynamix, either. At least not normally.
It was a two stage process. First MS made the QB killer app. Then when it died off, MS said that the product had no real purpose as just buying Excel and using some template at the time would do the same thing.
MS SBA Small Business Accounting, became MS Office Accounting. We used it from first release until they discontinued. Stayed through every iteration. We were the first MS Partner on it, so we got a lot of attention from MS to help us use it. It was an excellent product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Accounting
at the time, they didn't have BizSight 365 as transparently available right after Accounting discontinued as they make it seem now. But it is still available.
That wasn't excel based at all Microsoft accounting was based off some of the Dynamics code when Microsoft first bought Dynamics.
BizSight 365 also is not a Microsoft product just an item biztechnologies sells on appsource
-
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
Sadly, no one has made/provided a QB script to run on Excel to make this product die... Damn.. I wonder how much that would be worth?
MS did, once upon a time. But it didn't make it. but seriously, it was a product that they had. And it was good.
Any links to proof of that, never heard or can find anything about such a product. I dobut they'd compete with their own Dynamics offerings. Nor would MS ever recommend anyone run their whole accounting in excel even if using a bunch of messy VB inside of it.
QB doesn't compete with Dynamix, either. At least not normally.
It was a two stage process. First MS made the QB killer app. Then when it died off, MS said that the product had no real purpose as just buying Excel and using some template at the time would do the same thing.
MS SBA Small Business Accounting, became MS Office Accounting. We used it from first release until they discontinued. Stayed through every iteration. We were the first MS Partner on it, so we got a lot of attention from MS to help us use it. It was an excellent product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Accounting
at the time, they didn't have BizSight 365 as transparently available right after Accounting discontinued as they make it seem now. But it is still available.
That wasn't excel based at all Microsoft accounting was based off some of the Dynamics code when Microsoft first bought Dynamics.
BizSight 365 also is not a Microsoft product just an item biztechnologies sells on appsource
That would make sense given the time, it was announced in 2005. But it was part of the Office Suite with Word, Excel, etc.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
-
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
We should do a serverless seminar. It would be great to have a solid talk on real world example use cases of where regular companies would have their best chances at trying it out.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
We should do a serverless seminar. It would be great to have a solid talk on real world example use cases of where regular companies would have their best chances at trying it out.
I'd definitely love to see an SMB (on the smaller side) example of that - how you deal with file shares, windows server apps, etc.
-
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
We should do a serverless seminar. It would be great to have a solid talk on real world example use cases of where regular companies would have their best chances at trying it out.
I'd definitely love to see an SMB (on the smaller side) example of that - how you deal with file shares, windows server apps, etc.
Serverless isn't for dealing with those types of loads, they are more akin to data processing, scheduled reports or what you might call batch processing. Moving Data from one place to another, sending emails. anything that's event triggered.
-
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
We should do a serverless seminar. It would be great to have a solid talk on real world example use cases of where regular companies would have their best chances at trying it out.
I'd definitely love to see an SMB (on the smaller side) example of that - how you deal with file shares, windows server apps, etc.
Those aren't things you solve with serverless architecture. It's things like APIs, message queue consumers, webhooks, database actions, etc.
Here's a good example. Your company uses both Quickbooks and Epicor (I don't know if Epicor supports outgoing webhooks but pretend they do for the example). An order comes in for widget A and you put that into Epicor as an order. As soon as that happens Epicor sends a webhook request to your serverless function that then interfaces with the Quickbooks API to create an invoice and send it to the customer.
Another example. You have a website that sells socks. An order comes in for a pair of socks and is put on the message queue to be consumed by a subscriber(s). Each subscriber does their work with the message including a serverless function that sends an email out to the customer informing them the order was received.
Another example is a full fledged API. https://cookies.hookiescookies.com/api/site/cookies. That's a real API endpoint running in a serverless function. There's also /api/ingredients/{ingredient-name}, /api/wholesale/cookies, and /api/cookie/{cookieId}.
The data for the API still lives in a database (it's FaunaDB), but I'm no longer in the business of managing NGINX, or Apache, or Tomcat, or a custom web server to handle it (I still had to write the router and such like I would with a custom webserver but that's easy). Any changes I need to make are only based on that function and it's automatically built and deployed for me. And it only runs when a request comes in.
-
Another real world example. We use GitLab for our projects and ServiceNow for tickets. I wrote a serverless function that takes webhooks from GitLab merge requests and opens a ServiceNow change request with the data from the GitLab merge request. That was manual work before. Now it's automated through that and I don't have to manage the service.
-
It goes beyond functions.
Serverless Kubernetes and container services.
Serverless application environments.
Don't forget about the CI/CD pipelines, which can pretty much do anything you want, even on-prem if want to host (an Azure) worker there (still 'serverless' in the other sense).
There's Serverless Automation, inventory, change tracking...
DSC (config management) without needing a server.Update management
Device management
etc... and it keeps growing.
-
@Obsolesce said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
It goes beyond functions.
Serverless Kubernetes and container services.
Serverless application environments.
Don't forget about the CI/CD pipelines, which can pretty much do anything you want, even on-prem if want to host (an Azure) worker there (still 'serverless' in the other sense).
There's Serverless Automation, inventory, change tracking...
DSC (config management) without needing a server.Update management
Device management
etc... and it keeps growing.
I think that confuses the idea. The only thing people refer to when they say serverless is functions like Lambda, GCP Cloud Functions, Azure Functions, etc. Things that only run when a request appears. The other things are SaaS offerings. By that definition any SaaS would be "serverless".
With things like GKE, EKS, ECS, etc you still have to manage the docker containers. That's just a hosted PaaS.
-
@thecreaitvone91 said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Dashrender said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@coliver said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@ScottyBoy said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@flaxking said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
I've recognized an IPOD and witnessed it play out.
In the end the business decided it made more financial sense to put 200 VMs in Azure.
This is for a TV station cloud simply isn't an option to run this stuff unfortunately.
My point is that putting a bunch of VMs in Azure is a pretty expensive solution, but dealing with an IPOD ends up costing the business enough that the cost is acceptable.
The other solution is to not design an IPOD.
Exactly. Buy a correctly sized Scale box - no IPOD... sure, huge upfront cost, but who knows over the long term compared to Azure. etc etc etc.. We don't have any of the other needed information to know if going to Azure was the right move or not... but it's done, so we move on.
Literally everything is cheap compared to Azure. LOL. Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload.
Their serverless offering is on par with the rest. It's a million requests per month and 400,000 seconds of compute for free. After that it's only $0.20 per million executions and $0.000016 per second. That's not really expensive at all.
Here you used serverless pricing to say that you could use it to get the cost of Azure below having infrastructure of our own. How do we make it cheaper, if it's an additional cost rather than a replacement one? Wasn't the point of this to say that going all cloud would allow us to remove the cost of our own server? If not, what were you saying?
Nope. Never said that. I was replying to you saying "Even with all their specialty serverless whatever, never seen it cost close to what running your own would do. The cost is just so absurd per workload."
I said their serverless offering is on par with the rest. And it's cheaper than running serverless yourself if you use the free tier. You're grasping at straws here.
I was pointing out that even when you leverage serverless type stuff, because I know what it is and had already considered it, it wasn't enough to overcome all of the costs.
Responding that the serverless portion is on par with other providers is fine, but doesn't address the point that when taken together, it's not really cost competitive.
Again the only costs that were mentioned was directly related to serverless. You interjected your own ideas here and made a mountain out of nothing.
Then I apologize. Their serverless offerings are good value similar to the industry and I read into what was being said inappropriately.
No it's fine, I'm not trying to be combative. I maybe could have worded things better.
We should do a serverless seminar. It would be great to have a solid talk on real world example use cases of where regular companies would have their best chances at trying it out.
I'd definitely love to see an SMB (on the smaller side) example of that - how you deal with file shares, windows server apps, etc.
Serverless isn't for dealing with those types of loads, they are more akin to data processing, scheduled reports or what you might call batch processing. Moving Data from one place to another, sending emails. anything that's event triggered.
Which basically goes back to Scott's earlier point that serverless really isn't for most smaller SMBs. Not to say there is zero use for it, but presently I can't think of anything I'd use it for currently.... Could we create processes to use it? likely/sure, but currently we don't have any. We are a pretty simple shop.
Windows Server - file/print
Windows Server - AD
Windows server - backup
Windows Server - accounting software
hosted app - EHR
hosted app - O365 (eventually, hopefully - files will move here) -
@stacksofplates said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
@Obsolesce said in Looking to Buy a SAN:
It goes beyond functions.
Serverless Kubernetes and container services.
Serverless application environments.
Don't forget about the CI/CD pipelines, which can pretty much do anything you want, even on-prem if want to host (an Azure) worker there (still 'serverless' in the other sense).
There's Serverless Automation, inventory, change tracking...
DSC (config management) without needing a server.Update management
Device management
etc... and it keeps growing.
I think that confuses the idea. The only thing people refer to when they say serverless is functions like Lambda, GCP Cloud Functions, Azure Functions, etc. Things that only run when a request appears. The other things are SaaS offerings. By that definition any SaaS would be "serverless".
With things like GKE, EKS, ECS, etc you still have to manage the docker containers. That's just a hosted PaaS.
All of what I mentioned is not SaaS offerings.
It's all part of this for example, their (Azure's) serverless arsenal:
- https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/serverless/
- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/architecture/serverless/
- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/architecture/reference-architectures/serverless/cloud-automation
- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/architecture/serverless/guide/serverless-app-cicd-best-practices
Maybe it adds in to the confusion because it's not the primary serverless 'easy example' if you know what I mean.
