AV - should companies keep buying it?
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All of the training in the world won't stop a sophisticated attack. Users are a great way to prevent a lot of the lowly attacks, but attacks from state actors or people who are targeting the business will, eventually be successful.
AV is a frontline, along with user training and awareness. It's not a bullet proof shield.
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@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
All of the training in the world won't stop a sophisticated attack. Users are a great way to prevent a lot of the lowly attacks, but attacks from state actors or people who are targeting the business will, eventually be successful.
AV is a frontline, along with user training and awareness. It's not a bullet proof shield.
neither will any AV - so in that case, they both do nothing really, against state actors. I consider actual education much more valuable in a case against state actors - because the goal there often is to get the user to do something wrong... IF it can be seen by the user - it will be stopped.... if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
But neither would the user. As a lot of zero day's are all behind the scenes. Or things that are so ingrained in the day to day that a user doing nothing abnormal is exposed via the same process, but because of a malicious actor.
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@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
But neither would the user. As a lot of zero day's are all behind the scenes. Or things that are so ingrained in the day to day that a user doing nothing abnormal is exposed via the same process, but because of a malicious actor.
in most spearphishing attacks, the user has to initiate the contact - by clicking a link, etc. So, yes.. training can make the suspicious and possibly prevent them from clicking the link.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
But neither would the user. As a lot of zero day's are all behind the scenes. Or things that are so ingrained in the day to day that a user doing nothing abnormal is exposed via the same process, but because of a malicious actor.
in most spearphishing attacks, the user has to initiate the contact - by clicking a link, etc. So, yes.. training can make the suspicious and possibly prevent them from clicking the link.
Is most spearphising you're seeing of the zero-day variety? The kind I'm seeing are of the "yup, we know about it and AV killed it, and our user notified us of it before clicking on the link anyways" varietal.
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@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
But neither would the user. As a lot of zero day's are all behind the scenes. Or things that are so ingrained in the day to day that a user doing nothing abnormal is exposed via the same process, but because of a malicious actor.
in most spearphishing attacks, the user has to initiate the contact - by clicking a link, etc. So, yes.. training can make the suspicious and possibly prevent them from clicking the link.
Is most spearphising you're seeing of the zero-day variety? The kind I'm seeing are of the "yup, we know about it and AV killed it, and our user notified us of it before clicking on the link anyways" varietal.
yeah, but in your case - the training was still the first to kick in - not the AV, that is assuming the training/user didn't fail. Of course if it did - which is the only reason the AV would be 'stopping' something.. then in that case, because not zero day - the av worked.
But - as Scott already said - the idea here isn't to be rid of AV, because Windows comes with a decent AV already included...
It more about it is better to buy the centralized console for AV or instead spend the money on training/update management solution?
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@RojoLoco said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
I just found an extension for Windows Admin Center that looks like it might be some sort of central console for windows defender. Installing now, will report back findings.
Whoa, that would be a huge win. I hope that this is real.
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@JaredBusch said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
The current price of Webroot is cheaper than us billing time to nuke and setup machines a couple times a year.
Agreed that Webroot would be way cheaper than doing that. But not having Webroot, I've not seen anyone getting infected like that.
If infections happened that often, and if Webroot would stop it, then absolutely that's a great deal. But without Webroot, but with proper setup otherwise (not running as admin, using Defender, etc.) we don't see but the rarest of infections.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
one being that the company actually values educating the company as a whole, not just a chastising of someone for something something wrong/bad/etc.
That could be worded that one expects their employees to be grown ups and the other feels the need to be condescending and treat them like idiots.
It's all perspective.
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@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
All of the training in the world won't stop a sophisticated attack. Users are a great way to prevent a lot of the lowly attacks, but attacks from state actors or people who are targeting the business will, eventually be successful.
Same with security products. Even the best ones only stop so much.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@DustinB3403 said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
if it's a zero day - the AV likely won't do squat.
But neither would the user. As a lot of zero day's are all behind the scenes. Or things that are so ingrained in the day to day that a user doing nothing abnormal is exposed via the same process, but because of a malicious actor.
in most spearphishing attacks, the user has to initiate the contact - by clicking a link, etc. So, yes.. training can make the suspicious and possibly prevent them from clicking the link.
True, spearphishing and zero day don't go together, though. A spearphishing attack by definition isn't a zero day.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
But - as Scott already said - the idea here isn't to be rid of AV, because Windows comes with a decent AV already included...
It more about it is better to buy the centralized console for AV or instead spend the money on training/update management solution?Exactly, disabling all AV just to prove a point is silly. It really is about which kind of AV makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
one being that the company actually values educating the company as a whole, not just a chastising of someone for something something wrong/bad/etc.
That could be worded that one expects their employees to be grown ups and the other feels the need to be condescending and treat them like idiots.
It's all perspective.
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots - because these are things that users just don't know - or at least never even consider until shown/educated on.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
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@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
Not fun, but a good thing to be doing.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
Because you are cheaper than KnowB4?
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@JaredBusch said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
Because you are cheaper than KnowB4?
One would assume.
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@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
You aren't blocking USB drives today?
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@IRJ said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@scottalanmiller said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
@Dashrender said in AV - should companies keep buying it?:
Well then - I guess most of the world is idiots
That should fall into the "well duh" category. Of course most of the world is idiots.
Along this line - the boss wants me to add to my duties - I now get to train our users on how to use a computer as well as how to be security minded. i.e. don't plug in random USB sticks into a computer, etc.
You aren't blocking USB drives today?
nope.
That was just one example.Then there is the need to still use DVDs around here - that one I couldn't block.
