Testing oVirt...
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@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
when I worked at a hardware vendor we all know quite well, there was a sales team hired somewhere in Asia to do UK sales. They were told to sell as much as possible, provided training and left alone. A month later, a call came in from some old lady who was sold a rack of SAN equipment when she called for a printer. After an investigation, the entire team was sacked and the customers reimbursed. Does that make that vendor evil?
So the did something to fix the situation? That's the difference between them and RH. RH has never once attempting to rectify it to the customer, or to the employees.
So you see why I see RH as very, very different.
And overselling to someone is the job of sales, violating professional and business ethics is not. Nor is attempting to poach customer staff.
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@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:
But in the real world, you don't have these problems with Fedora. You are correct, those are things you don't want happening. Thankfully, Fedora protects you from that. That's the point.
How does Fedora protect you? It's a distro packaged, with some bugfixes here and there, no formal QA besides the very basics, no support, nothing. I'm fine with that on my laptop, but on a thousand servers?
The apps we run (and develop) are tested against Fedora, so.... where do you see the concern? Why would the customer(s) need to deal with these problems, what's the source of your worries?
The apps don't run in a vacuum, they rely on layers of software. Do you test all those layers?
How much stuff are you running on the servers?
For example, I have a bunch of Fedora 28 web servers. They run the typical LAMP stack.
There was a PHP dev here who designed some LoB PHP app, but on old version of CentOS. And when I suggested we move to a new server (due to hundreds of complaints by users a month), I proposed Fedora, built one, and helped him migrate everything over. Of course, it was designed to use old AF PHP, so it needed to be fixed, and he didn't want to do that or take the time to do it.
But I emailed him back regarding PHP 7, and he was absolutely hooked. Just going to PHP 7 by itself was a several-fold performance improvement. And that's excluding going from old AF MySQL, to MariaDB, as well as all the CURRENT packages of software.
The end result was an incredibly improved end user experience, lots of compliments all around. Why? Because current software.
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@obsolesce said in Testing oVirt...:
@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:
But in the real world, you don't have these problems with Fedora. You are correct, those are things you don't want happening. Thankfully, Fedora protects you from that. That's the point.
How does Fedora protect you? It's a distro packaged, with some bugfixes here and there, no formal QA besides the very basics, no support, nothing. I'm fine with that on my laptop, but on a thousand servers?
The apps we run (and develop) are tested against Fedora, so.... where do you see the concern? Why would the customer(s) need to deal with these problems, what's the source of your worries?
The apps don't run in a vacuum, they rely on layers of software. Do you test all those layers?
How much stuff are you running on the servers?
For example, I have a bunch of Fedora 28 web servers. They run the typical LAMP stack.
There was a PHP dev here who designed some LoB PHP app, but on old version of CentOS. And when I suggested we move to a new server (due to hundreds of complaints by users a month), I proposed Fedora, built one, and helped him migrate everything over. Of course, it was designed to use old AF PHP, so it needed to be fixed, and he didn't want to do that or take the time to do it.
But I emailed him back regarding PHP 7, and he was absolutely hooked. Just going to PHP 7 by itself was a several-fold performance improvement. And that's excluding going from old AF MySQL, to MariaDB, as well as all the CURRENT packages of software.
The end result was an incredibly improved end user experience, lots of compliments all around. Why? Because current software.
Oh, back to my initial point lol (forgot).
Are you using your Fedora servers to do so many different things, so many different roles and so many different softwares?
How many bugs are in current software that you're so worried about? No bugs in any of the stuff running on our Fedora servers.... so not sure where that fits.
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Maybe this summary will help to explain why we feel the way that we do...
I think we all agree, and have always felt that...
- EL is an excellent product.
- EL has great support.
And then that...
- Fedora is an excellent product.
- Fedora support is good enough that we see nominal value in anything more.
But then that...
- Fedora includes features and performance benefits that are more than nominal.
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@obsolesce said in Testing oVirt...:
How many bugs are in current software that you're so worried about? No bugs in any of the stuff running on our Fedora servers.... so not sure where that fits.
Right, this is my point. We run all kinds of workloads on Fedora and see zero concerns with bugs. PHP is a big one, but we run lots of other things, too. It's our database platform, it's our dev platform, it's our app platform. We haven't experienced any of these issues, we know of no one experiencing them.
And since the apps we use are tested on Fedora (when they are not, we use something else, like Zimbra on CentOS - which really shows the performance problems of being old and not kept up to date like we'd like) there isn't a lot of opportunity for new, unknown bugs to crop up since the entire stack is tested.
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@scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:
@obsolesce said in Testing oVirt...:
@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@black3dynamite said in Testing oVirt...:
Because of Fedora release schedule, I don't have to rely to much on using additional repos for stuff like php, databases, etc.
Well, if you need the latest bleeding edge releases, of course an EL distro isn't for you. Why use Fedora though, when you can use something more lightweight, like Alpine, in a container?
Please tell me what the point is in CentOS running PHP 5.6?
I mean, Look how old it is, and look when it looses support!
Fedora 28 uses 7.2.x, FAR FROM BLEEDING EDGE (ffs!). And oh looky, supported for longer than 2 more months lol.
Have fun upgrading the CentOS LTS servers you use to the next CentOS LTS... EVERYTHING will break, including all of your PHP apps.
One COULD argue that RHEL goes out of support when PHP does. From an application perspective, using RHEL 7 would be "unsupported".
By that logic, which is pretty solid in reality, Fedora is the supported OS, not RHEL, come January.
Yeah, but why purposely run bad performing software for years when there's a better and more stable option?
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NodeBB is another platform that is woefully behind on CentOS.
And basically every database. And in the NoSQL space, the lack of updates can mean some significant loss of functionality.
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@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@black3dynamite said in Testing oVirt...:
Because of Fedora release schedule, I don't have to rely to much on using additional repos for stuff like php, databases, etc.
Well, if you need the latest bleeding edge releases, of course an EL distro isn't for you. Why use Fedora though, when you can use something more lightweight, like Alpine, in a container?
I think Fedora rawhide has bleeding edge. Do also call the applications bleeding edge too?
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Just saw this and totally reminded me of containers (which we've had for decades) and the ebb and flow of wanting things containerized, then merged, then containerized again...
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And then this one, apropos stuff from XKCD. "All services are microservices if you ignore most of their features."
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@FATeknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:
Also waiting for this beta to drop: https://www.trilio.io/triliovault/
Update: The Trilio saga....:face_with_open_mouth_cold_sweat:
I followed up with Trilio.
A lot of promises/dates were made (by Trilio) as to when a beta would be made available for testing.
Needless to say, they never came through.
Finally in Dec 2018, they said we are ready for the demo, we will show you a working product.
The day came, Trilio said, sorry it's too close to Xmas, we will postpone the demo's till 2019.
In 2019, I continued to follow up & finally they set a date for another demo - Jan 29.
On Jan. 29, we get on the Webex, they said, sorry the demo just broke 10 mins prior to our call, so no demo.
They show me some screenshots & their OpenStack version & again promise to get me beta software in a few days.
I continue to follow up (via email)Yesterday (Feb 6), I get an email from Thomas Lahive GM; Sales and Alliance Partners....(copied & pasted below):
"We started RHV betas and decided to prioritize current Trilio customers (those that purchased Triliovault for Openstack).
If you would like to be part of the beta now then We can sign you up as a certified Trilio reseller which has a $7,500 Starter Fee. The $7,500 will be credited against your first customer order that is at least $7,500 so it will eventually cost you nothing. Many of our partners can apply the fee against revenue so it's a great tax incentive, but you can confirm with your finance department.
Please Lmk how you would like to proceed."Please remember, I have never seen a working demo of this product, never.
Is this typical behavior of RH partners?
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@FATeknollogee partners are all very separate. The actions of one really do not reflect on others.
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@FATeknollogee these guys sound really bad. I mean I can understand business decisions, they might not be seeing much demand for RHV, compared to Openstack, so they shift resources away, but feeding a customer promises is not good practice.
Check out Storware instead, they are very much oriented towards oVirt and RHV
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A bit OT but I've tried to find the suse competitor of RHV and I've not found it... Is there anything from suse?
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@matteo-nunziati said in Testing oVirt...:
A bit OT but I've tried to find the suse competitor of RHV and I've not found it... Is there anything from suse?
Probably but I've not used them for that in a long time. Would be interesting to know.
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@dyasny What are you doing w drovirt?
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@matteo-nunziati frankly, I'm surprised SuSE still exists
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@FATeknollogee nothing yet, been meaning to contribute some code, but I've been extremely busy with my daytime job lately
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@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@matteo-nunziati frankly, I'm surprised SuSE still exists
They where quite strong in Europe a few years ago. But the company has been sold so many times...
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@matteo-nunziati said in Testing oVirt...:
@dyasny said in Testing oVirt...:
@matteo-nunziati frankly, I'm surprised SuSE still exists
They where quite strong in Europe a few years ago. But the company has been sold so many times...
That is a sure way to kill a product. Everyone starts to feel uncertain and then people give up while waiting for the dust to settle and the more that people wait, the more that the dust doesn't settle and soon everyone just gives up on it.
